Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-04-2007, 07:36   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sovereign Harbour on UK south coast and Grenada
Boat: Fastcat 435 Vector K electric wannabe
Posts: 2
Hi Robert,
The best way to get shot on your boat is to carry a firearm. If you Google Piracy and Firearms and read the stories you will appreciate this.
In the South Caribbean, off Haiti and in some Central American coastal waters there is an aggravated risk of boarding at night with intent to rob.

Since 99% of boarders are barefoot, put down tacks on deck at night. This has worked very effectively for most experienced skippers since the 19th Century. Recommended reading is Joshua Slocum's Sailing Alone Around the World, which should still be in print or in your local library.

There are no recorded officially reported instances this century in the Caribbean of boarding with attempt to murder or inflict actual bodily harm. The only sailors who have been killed or wounded in the Caribbean, Central and South America, including the Amazon estuary, were either shot with their own weapons or shot back at when a skipper initiated firing upon suspected intruders.

As a former military officer, I sympathise with your membership of NRA and understand why you might be considering carrying a gun on board. If you knowingly visit any area where there is a lack of security, don't even think about going in alone but sail in company, organise regular hourly radio contact. Don't ever radio your true position but refer only to pre-arranged coded waypoints and make your stay as brief as possible.

If you'd like me to email you some useful links, send your contact details to lifeforce@fsmail.net.
__________________

__________________
aquilamia is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 07:38   #62
Registered User
 
Inthewind's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charlotte harbor, FL
Boat: Morgan OI 414
Posts: 251
I live in South Florida too on the other coast. Oh, so you were born and raised in Norway and now your in America, that explains a few things.

Insurance companies are required by law to report uninsured motorist to the Department of Motor Vehicles. With no car insurance your license and tag are revoked but that doesn't stop alot of people from driving, however when caught they go to jail.

It's not a perfect world out there, deal with it, there is not much we can do about it.
__________________

__________________
Inthewind is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 08:17   #63
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Is this necessary? . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inthewind
Oh, so you were born and raised in Norway and now your in America, that explains a few things.
. . . How does patronizing condescension add anything to the discussion?

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 09:22   #64
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Quote:
I live in South Florida too on the other coast. Oh, so you were born and raised in Norway and now your in America, that explains a few things.
What does it explain?

That I immigrated to America like most folks here, and their ancestors did?

Quote:
It's not a perfect world out there, deal with it, there is not much we can do about it.
Who says I am not dealing with it?
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is online now  
Old 15-04-2007, 13:18   #65
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Not to fuel the fire, but just another person's $0.02:

At my home I have a 30-06 semi auto hunting rifle, and a 9mm semi auto pistol. The hunting rifle I have because I used to go deer hunting, and the pistol because I wanted something in my house for home protection. I'm not a "gun nut". I don't have pictures on the walls of guns, and I let my NRA membership expire when I learned that they really just prop up the GOP and are extremely partisan.

So hopefully I could be qualified as an NPR-listening-ex-Navy-gun-owner-who-goes-to-the-range-every-few-months. :-)

All that being said, I'll keep my 9mm with me when in the US, because I already have it. The rifle is huge, will just rust away, and is of little use for home defense. When we leave the US, the gun stays here.

I have a pistol because I imagine that anyone breaking into my home has a pistol, shotgun, or less. I don't need to defend my home from 10 guys with AK-74's and a dude on the fain tail with an RPG (bazooka-ish). If someone breaks into my apartment, it will probably be some meth head with a knife who wants to jack my television. I certainly don't want to kill someone, but I also am not going to put my family's safety in the hands of a home invader. I don't have a rigging knife because I know of a problem; it's just a tool that you use in the event of total screw ups to prevent things from getting even worse.

But on the high seas, I'm imagining that the majority of "pirates" are kids swimming up trying to steal the compass with a screw driver. I don't need to blow a hole in the kid's chest. Pepper spray will work, or the spreader lights, or I'll have to get a new compass. Better than a dead kid.

And for "real" pirates, you would need well oiled assault weapons, along with some anti-armor munitions like an RPG. Additionally, you'd need some Kevlar helmets and jackets, along with metal plates mounted in your hull. You get the idea; trying to stop a skiff of armed criminals is pretty much impossible.
__________________
rebel heart is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 15:01   #66
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Or make the nation the top in the world by far for murders.

While a I can not verify their data, a quick google seach turned up:

NationMaster - Statistics > Murders (per capita) by country

This shows the US as #24 per capita, not the top in the word by far for murders. It does not break down how the murder occured (gun, knife, dropping someone out a window).

People without guns will find other ways of killing people. Guns just make it easy and efficent. We have guns, not onboard, and they are mostly family heirlooms.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 15:25   #67
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ
Boat: 63 ft John Spencer Schooner
Posts: 956
Maybe not highrest but you are bracketed by Armenia and Bulgaria. Try taking just the OECD countries.
__________________
dana-tenacity is offline  
Old 15-04-2007, 22:01   #68
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Quote:
ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
Quote:
This shows the US as #24 per capita, not the top in the word by far for murders. It does not break down how the murder occured (gun, knife, dropping someone out a window).
Guns in the wrong hands seems to be a problem.

No guns, no gun-deaths?
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is online now  
Old 15-04-2007, 22:38   #69
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
CSY-
"[HCI] Never heard of them, not a member."
No, you couldn't be a member now--they were shamed out of business. But for 10-20 years they were the leading national anti-gun voice.

"[medical deaths] All these people are "killed"?"
Yes, killed, by totally avoidable errors. Not by doctors doing their best, but avoidable errors like some intern working an 80-hour straight shift and mistaking "give 10micrograms" to be "give 10milligrams" and radically overdosing a patient. If those things go to court--it is only over the amount of the damages. Hospitals kicked and screamed (and still do) saying that "writing out whatever instead of 10mg takes too long, the interns should know better". Well, fatigue kills.

Mistakes like secondary infections, because basic sanitation like washing hands and IV stands is simply not done. Secondary infections are almost totally avoidable--but account for 100,000 deaths every year. Hospitals now have those alcohol hand gel sanitizers all over the place--but still fight to get the staff to use the. And, they just don't do the basic cleaning.

This stuff is all documented.

"Will take my chances: If one goes to the hospital there is always a chance one is sick and may not come back," Sure, and if you eat out you can die because the salad chef didn't wash his hands when he used the toilet. The point is--the medical industry gets away with murder, routinely. If you are ever in hospital, and anyone comes into the room to TOUCH you, the pro-active patient will tell them flat out WASH YOUR HANDS BEFORE YOU TOUCH ME or use the hand sanitizer. You have no idea who they just saw but you CAN force them to disinfect their hands before they move on to you.

"Not sure what this has to do with too many hand guns in the possesion of people that should not even be allowed to own a pair of knitting pins due to mental illness or low IQ."

What it has to do with guns, is that avoidable medical errors kill many many more people than guns. If your concern is safety--put out the big fires first, don't spend all day trying to insist the small ones are the problem. Guns are like the boogeyman under your bed, people tell you all about them in order to terrorize you and distract you. Don't fall for it.

"To prevent the wrong people having guns, one could stop the making and selling of guns to the above people."
Nice theory, but no one has ever quite been able to make it happen. And in fact, most gun owners would AGREE with you. Just keep the guns away from those WRONG people--but don't take them away from everyone else. Banning guns is exactly like saying "Drunk drivers kill, so let's ban all CARS because some of them are in the hands of drunks!" Hey, that works for me, doesn't it work for you?
And again, in point of fact, gun owners have worked to pass laws that keep guns out of hte hands of criminals, and put criminals away for having and using guns--or attempting to possess them. The NRA was one of the originators of "Project Exile" which has been endorsed by state and federal agencies, calling for 100% enforcement of the existing laws that say any felon caught with a gun does five years in prison, period. No plea bargain, no discussion, five years right away. Many prosecutors will not enforce this law--and then they complain about guns in the wrong hands.

"The NRA don't see it that way: The more guns out there, the better it is:
Let us all shot each other to protect ourself?"
Nope. As I said above. Further, it is proven (documented by the DOJ and everyone else) that when you "just" ban guns, gun crime goes up. You CANNOT keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Criminals are a free market, someone will find the guns and make them available. Shut down the gun factories--as several have tried to do--and the guns can still be made. Go to the Kyber Pass, in the middle of nowhere, and individual men turn out fully automatic AK47's and other weapons in a home cottage industry. Want a pistol? No problem. Guns are not high tech, in the 50's and 60's most high school kids could build or buy a "zip gun" and that kills you just as well as anything else. Want one today? Give me twenty minutes in the average kitchen, I can make you a gun. So what will banning them accomplish?

Oh, wait, banning them accomplishes Ruwanda. One million dead by machete and axe, no guns required.

"Again, in a nutshell: IF the idiots and criminals did not have guns, they could not shoot other people." Absolutely right! And if the drunks didn't ahve cars, they couldn't kill. The problem is, do you take away the rights of everyone, when the vast majority of "everyone" did nothing to be punished for?

"And again, yes it may be too late to stop that, but why not give it a try?
Control them guns with a heavy hand. " There are something like 5-10,000 "gun" laws on the books in the US already. More laws have never helped. The people who tell you they need more laws to make you safe, are lying to you. They are the same people who know that they could be hiring more cops, prosecutors, and jail space, and by simply ENFORCING the existing laws--cutting gun crime. But they won't do that, because no one wants to hear "We have to raise your taxes". Instead, the suckers always fall for "This won't cost you anything, we can save you by passing this law and blaming this boogeyman." DON'T BE FOOLED.


"No more gunshows with specials on permit waivers," Don't be fooled, you can't buy a gun at a gunshow--from a dealer--without the same paperwork and waiting period you need in a store. And if you buy one from a private party--that's got nothing to do with regulating gun shows. That line is total FUD designed simply to shut down gun shows.

"no more promoting "You Need a Gun To Protect Your Family"."
Sadly, many people do. Every month there are confirmed police reports and news items along the lines of "Pa Smith, age 75, woke up in the middle of the night hearing breaking glass...shouted a warning and then shot two burglars." Guns ARE used to defense against criminals, but those stories aren't as interesting as the color of Brittany Spears new panties, so they don't get national exposure. Every month you can find a full page of them, picked up from newspaper articles and police reports, in any NRA magazine, documenting the extent of self-defense. Yes, guns still are being used to protect and save lives and property. Daily.

"Clean up this place, clean the guns of the streets."
Don't be fooled! All you can do, is ask or prevent the law-abiding citizens from owning guns. The criminals will thank you--because it is proven that once you make it safe for them to operate, they will prey on UNarmed citizens and crime goes up again. The stats all confirm that what you think will work--boomerangs in the worst way. The politicians all know this.

Boaters kill manatees with their props, should be ban all props in order to protect the manatees from the few irresponsible boaters?
__________________
hellosailor is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 04:44   #70
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Flare Guns for Self-Defense:
Chad & Carolyn (s/v “Tambadil”) decided to conduct this little trial after hearing that some cruisers who have chosen not to carry firearms, were considering their flare guns as part of their last line of defense in the event of a life-threatening attack, or to warn off would-be thieves.
They posted the “Results Of Our (their) Very Informal Flare Guns Testing” in the SSCA Discussion Board:
SSCA Discussion Board :: View topic - Results Of Our Very Informal Flare Guns Testing
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 12:02   #71
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.

Guns in the wrong hands seems to be a problem.

No guns, no gun-deaths?
How is the rate measured? Sheer number? Per capita?

I am also unconcerned about self inflicted gun wounds. If you want to off yourself then not having a gun isn't going to stop you. Mixing in the accidents and suicides makes the numbers meaningless when talking comparisions of murder rates.

In the end banning guns might stop some murders but people will always find new and clever ways of killing each other. A gun is a tool, nothing more. They don't get out of bed and decide to kill someone.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 12:15   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Live in Boise, boat is in Titusville, FL
Boat: 56' CNSO Mikado Ketch S/V Solace
Posts: 231
Bear pepper spray will stop anyone trying to board your boat dead in their tracks. The problem with any non-lethal solution is that the bad guy has the option of returning. Your best defense is common sense......travel in statistically safe areas, keep a low profile while in port and secure your belongings. Also, there is safety in numbers so have a cruising partner when possible.

The firearms debate has been going on for a long time. Above all, most Americans do not want to give up our freedoms that were fought for over 200 years ago. With all our problems, the US is still the number one destination for travel and immigration in the world.

Here's a scary fact..........of the 16000 murders in the US in 2006, 5000 were committed by illegial aliens. More secure borders could resolve many of our problems.
__________________
Mikado is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 13:00   #73
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
And then there's this . . .

. . . which just happened this morning:

32 Killed in Virginia Tech Shootings, At Least 24 Injured - washingtonpost.com

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 14:44   #74
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ
Boat: 63 ft John Spencer Schooner
Posts: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikado
the US is still the number one destination for travel and immigration in the world.
I wonder if that is true, particularly as regards travel, travelling to the US at present is not a pleasant experience, fingerprints, photos ...............

Regards immigration, it probably says more about your neighbours then the US.
__________________
dana-tenacity is offline  
Old 16-04-2007, 15:11   #75
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Doubtful . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikado
Above all, most Americans do not want to give up our freedoms that were fought for over 200 years ago. With all our problems, the US is still the number one destination for travel and immigration in the world.
. . . In my experience, "most Americans" don't really give a s**t about giving up freedoms - since the repeal of habeus corpus during the Civil War, Americans have had their freedoms incrimentally infringed and even eliminated without batting an eye. It's their Cheese Whiz, and scholcky entertainment they don't want to give up. That, and their guns, but not in that order.

And, though I can't cite a source for this at the moment*, France is reputed to be, and has been for quite some time, the world's favorite tourist destination. As far as being a destination for those wishing to emigrate to the US, legally or otherwise, most immigrants would probably say it was because they sought economic opportunity, not greater freedom.

According to the below-noted sources*: France, Spain, United States, China, Italy … (in that order)
are the top tourist destinations

*Sources:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0198352.html
and
http://www.world-tourism.org/facts/e.../Top25_ita.pdf

TaoJones
__________________

__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Firearms Regulations by Country GordMay Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 97 31-08-2010 11:38
a transportable cruising yacht beau Forum Tech Support & Site Help 3 09-04-2007 21:12
Cruising Club of America Awards GordMay Cruising News & Events 1 21-01-2007 11:41
GUNS eskfreedom Health, Safety & Related Gear 63 20-06-2006 19:09
"Second Thoughts on the Ideal Cruising Boat" Stede General Sailing Forum 9 19-09-2004 22:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.