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Old 11-04-2007, 23:05   #16
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lodesman,
I think I gave excellent advise. DONT CARRY GUNS ON A BOAT.

Seriously, why is that Americans are the ONLY crusiers who carry guns. Somebody is out of touch with reality here, or is it that americans are right and the rest of the WORLD is wrong.
Wake up to youselves DONT CARRY GUNS ON A BOAT.
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Old 11-04-2007, 23:32   #17
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sneuman, great reply sir, i would truley love to read your atricle, indeed i tottaly agree, and it sounds like you are are a Man from experiance" great to have many experianced fellow memebers here as there seems to be /and views of people like you here, as i am new here to being a new member i appriciate all the vast hard core/cruisers members advice ,

indeed i was not there to experiance thier views, and i am sure that many a sceniero could be obtainted, yes by all means a tool such as a machette shall we say can be observed as a threat, and can be mistakend to many of of us as a threat, indeed as to local coultures as an everyday tool,

just a note to folow up previous post , been around the block, not as a Cat cruiser as of yet (lord knows as a dream for my Son and I) as a fellow member said, follow your dream" (thank you for that Sir") as i am sure most fellow members have or been fortunate to obtain some day i hope to obtain that that is why i love this site.

as an ole spec opt, lord besides a very few, have seen what other human biengs could do to others just would haunt others if they could really see the horror from some other countries (and not just the very mild views you see on the tv) lord knows the imagies that a machette leaves (still have probs getting those imagies out of my mind, been to the "Bowls of this earth and seen many from a view human atroughsaties(sp?) and had to perform dutys beyound the human imaginagine to liviate.
what a danm world some of these countries live in, sorry for getting off a little on topic, but it is a good topic as far as personal saftey goes an maybe for storing personal valubles ect

very great people here and a ton of iformation to be shared thank you to all
Sparky
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:41   #18
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First went cruising in 1978, now up to around 150,000 miles. Never carried a gun, never felt threatened.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:01   #19
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Vanaller, If ya won't guns aboard, buy a bleeding Gun-boat. Maybe ya know more about guns than ya do about the place's ya want to "VISIT".
It's not a case of Americans with guns. Its more like, silly people with guns, Regardless of where they're from.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:19   #20
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beau and John,

I'm not an American, but I found beau's comments to be completely insulting. If you both think that only Americans carry guns, you're fooling yourselves. There will be those who choose or are required to carry firearms for protection from bears; there are live-aboards who are hunters or sportspersons who have their guns on board. While I think there are reasonable alternatives to having guns to protect from two-legged predators, there have always been and always will be those who feel guns are required for that. I would bet there are a few South African cruisers who carry; I would bet a fair number of cruisers in South America and Asia also carry. Peter Blake wasn't an American, now was he? Perhaps instead of insulting the guy, you could offer up some constructive advice on how to stay safe and not need a gun.

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Old 12-04-2007, 09:35   #21
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Gun or Marlboro Red's :)

Several years ago, 1991 or 1992, while I was anchored in Aruba, I met a cruising couple that had been part of a three boat group sailing near the coast of Columbia. All three vessels were boarded the same night, and on one of the boats the captain was badly "pistol whipped" and electronics, etc. taken from the boat. This couple had fallen behind from the other two vessels and heard one of them on the VHF. When they saw a fast boat approaching, the captain went below and grabbed his "pirate bag". No kidding, the wife said he viewed it as critical as a ditch bag. He had a carton of Marlboro, prominantly displayed, a bottle of Tequilla, a handheld VHF (old one) and some "fake" US currency rolled up with a rubber band. When the boat pulled along side and tried to board, he literally handed this to the guy holding onto the lifeline of their boat, a couple of them smiled and they took off after examining the contents of the box or bag of goodies. There was a few other items in the bag, I don't remember what else. They showed me the money, and it looked like $100 bills xeroxed on some porous paper... I suppose if you weren't real familiar with the currency it looked real enough! The wife was the one telling the story and the husband was just kind of shrugging it off.

As far as numerous "pirate" encounters being misunderstandings, there have been a number of stories where just that was the case. Local fishermen for example approaching boats at anchor, and after a short period of anxiety by both parties, ended up that they were just swinging by to sell some fresh catch.

Take it for what it's worth...

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Old 12-04-2007, 15:26   #22
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Peter Blake may well be still alive if he hadn't had a gun on board.
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Old 12-04-2007, 15:44   #23
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Colombia is a country in South America; Columbia is a district in the US or a space shuttle.
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Old 12-04-2007, 15:53   #24
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lodesman,
Your digging yourself a big hole.

I lived in America for ten years. Regularly I invited homes of managers, company executives etc. The first thing they always showed me on visiting their house was their "gun collection".
Naively I asked, why do you have guns and the reply was also like yours, I like to hunt.
My next question was why do you need a uzi or sub machine gun to hunt why have a handgun in the forest.
I got all sorts of riduculous answers, finally after they had exhausted all other reasons, They admitted it was for "protection" for my wife of course.
My answer, if it really is "defense" or " protection" why not buy a shotgun, at least you can't miss with one of those at short range.

If you are so insecure that you have to carry guns, at least admit to yourself and the world why you and an Americans have this "thing" about guns and stop giving us this bullshit about "hunting animals"
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Old 12-04-2007, 16:33   #25
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I do like that fake money idea in US dollars, I think I might try that.

The only problem I see is from "Customs or quarantine" you might just go to jail for forgery.
Or what if your "pirate" realises that the money really is "fake" you may not survive.

Real life experiences I have heard "first hand" is, if there is any sign that your vistors alongside "want something" give them cigarettes, sugar, alcohol, and be pleasant and friendly. You are much more likely to survive than by carrying a bloody GUN
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Old 12-04-2007, 16:49   #26
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Constructive Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
,
... you could offer up some constructive advice on how to stay safe and not need a gun.
Kevin
There is currently a thread that has gone on for a long time on this subject (plus a number of satellite threads). It has touched all of the primary 'talking points' put forth by both the pro and anti firearms crowds. Some of the other threads cover everything from flair guns to dogs to pepper spray. There is one devoted strictly to non gun self defense on board a boat.

Arguably the best advice you will find on this comes from Gord's exhaustive list of where firearms are legal, thanks Gord. Other than that your next best source is your own council.
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Old 12-04-2007, 17:21   #27
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America is a free nation, we are allowed to own guns, it's part of American heritage and it's one of things that makes our nation strong. If you were aboard my yacht and I saved your skin by the use of a firearm, granted the chances are slim of that ever happening, I think you would be thankful that I had a firearm and knew how to use it. I would rather have a gun and never need it, than need it and not have one. It's a personal choice whether to carry or not and those that do should not be ridiculed because you don't agree. Piracy does exist, although rare does happen and can happen in any waters. A firearm should only be used when lives are in danger of being hurt or killed. You or anyone would never even know that I have a gun onboard because that is my secret. Enough about guns, it's like beating a dead horse.
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Old 12-04-2007, 18:47   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beau
lodesman,
Your digging yourself a big hole.

I lived in America for ten years. Regularly I invited homes of managers, company executives etc. The first thing they always showed me on visiting their house was their "gun collection".
Naively I asked, why do you have guns and the reply was also like yours, I like to hunt.
My next question was why do you need a uzi or sub machine gun to hunt why have a handgun in the forest.
I got all sorts of riduculous answers, finally after they had exhausted all other reasons, They admitted it was for "protection" for my wife of course.
My answer, if it really is "defense" or " protection" why not buy a shotgun, at least you can't miss with one of those at short range.

If you are so insecure that you have to carry guns, at least admit to yourself and the world why you and an Americans have this "thing" about guns and stop giving us this bullshit about "hunting animals"
beau,

What are you on about? I don't believe that Uzi's or sub-machine guns are legal in the US. I don't doubt there are a lot of fools in the US that have guns, but have no clue how to use them, store them, or even why they have them - they have them because they can. The same can be said about boat owners - there are a lot of Americans cluelessly blasting around in big stinkin mobo's that only prove they have more money than brains. But there are a lot of hunters in North America - that's a fact. And most farmers have rifles for pest control in North America - also a fact. I don't hunt - as such I don't own any rifles or shotguns. I don't carry guns nor do I feel I need to. That doesn't stop me from offering constructive advice when someone asks a question - I think it's a perfectly fair question that shouldn't result in being ridiculed and insulted. I don't have a 'thing' about guns, but it sure sounds like you do.

My point still stands, Peter Blake was a cruiser with a gun, and he wasn't American. Maybe if he grew up around guns and knew how to handle them he wouldn't have gotten himself killed. He also could have been shot if it was a winch-handle in his hand instead of a gun.
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Old 12-04-2007, 20:02   #29
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It's your choice, and your consequences . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inthewind
Piracy does exist, although rare does happen and can happen in any waters. A firearm should only be used when lives are in danger of being hurt or killed. You or anyone would never even know that I have a gun onboard because that is my secret.
While I cannot argue with the logic of the quoted material, Inthewind, I encourage you to think it through a little further.

If your last sentence is literally true, then you have entered another nation's waters without declaring your weapons and ammunition. Then, the unthinkable happens, and, whether through an act of piracy or not, you are absolutely certain that your life, or that of someone else you wish to protect, is in imminent peril.

You pull your gun and use it, confident you are in the right, and acting in self-defense. You have saved your life, and perhaps the lives of your loved ones, and the perpetrator/s are wounded or dead.

So much for your "secret."

The fact that you failed to declare the gun is the least of your problems. At the very least, you will be arrested, possibly along with your crew (who may be your family), and your vessel seized - it is, after all, a crime scene.

Now you find yourself in a foreign land, possibly facing a charge of murder, or attempted murder. You undoubtedly do not speak their language, and the proceedings will not be conducted in English to accomodate you. Your legal representative, if you are lucky enough to find a good one, may not speak English either.

Do you think that anyone in that nation cares that in the USA you have the constitutional right to own and use a gun? Do you believe they are sympathetic that you felt in mortal danger? Do you think your American passport is a shield against "injustice?" Do you think you have "rights" that are greater than those of the person/s you shot? The "pirates" may have meant you grievous harm, but do you think you can prove that in their land? Do you think that, even in the unlikely event that you prevail legally, the entire thing will be handled quickly, and that you will be back aboard your vessel in no time and happily on your way to your next destination?

If you are still comfortable carrying a concealed weapon aboard your vessel into foreign lands, then by all means, do so! If you find yourself in a situation where you believe you are defending your life; that, unless you pull your weapon and use it, you, or your family, could be harmed, then by all means, do it!

Just be sure you are prepared to accept the consequences, have very deep pockets and plenty of time to kill (no pun intended).

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Old 12-04-2007, 21:04   #30
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If I can't post anything nice about killing machine toters then i won't post anything at all.

I will say this though...the only person I have known who enjoyed and owned guns turned one on himself. I am not blaming the gun but if he only didn't have it.
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