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Old 04-09-2009, 15:02   #76
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Shelter Bay near Colon

I have been there a few times. It is a safe place to be. As for Colon, it a very unsafe place to me in many areas. They usually don't kill you in Colon just rob you. If you resist they won't hesitate to put a knife in you.

My shooting was a "murder for hire for money" by a relative who thought he would end up with my assets. An almost 'PERFECT CRIME" ..... Biggest mistake was that a professional was not hired to do the killing. You get what you pay for. A stoned punk will shoot you for $100 but you can not count on a quality killing. Cowards usually calm themselves by smoking or taking drugs before they kill someone. Look at the people killing families and wifes and ministers and friends in USA and rest of the world. This world and some of its people are a little crazy to say the least.

I am just a normal guy with a bit of adventure with few enemies, and a little knaive until last year. Learn from others my father told me. SO take this as a lesson please. Cruise the Caribbean and Central American and Indonesia and if you are not prepared you may suffer sometime very bad.

When someone robs you or tries to kill you it kinda makes you a little pissed off.

Shelter Bay is safe and a very nice Marina...
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:10   #77
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Why relative would want to kill you .....read the link

The lull before the storm: adult children who kill their parents | Forensic Examiner, The | Find Articles at BNET

It is called The lull before the storm: Adult children who kill their parents.
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:16   #78
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Learn from others my father told me.
Mine too, classic father quote and great advice. Though the lesson here might be...be nice to your family so they don't hire someone to kill you...

The Caribbean will probably by my next cruising ground, from the accounts I've read it seems like a fairly safe place filled with lots of nice people. I don't plan on carrying a gun, if I'm in a situation where I'm robbed by pirates, I'll just surrender. It seems so highly improbable that if it does happen, I'll probably find it pretty funny--one of those "just my kinda luck"--scenarios. I don't expect to be killed if i surrender. I don't mind losing my GPS if I keep my life. I also spoke to my girlfriend, she prefers rape over death...and supports the romantic sugar coated idea of sailing in friendly seas unarmed.
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:18   #79
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I never knew I was a target. Carrying a gun for me is protecting my love ones. I watch a lot of news. I also know there are many psychopaths out there. I was in the bar business for 20 years and I know there are bad guys especially over drinkers. That I am not.

The whole thing is "PROTECTING THE ONES YOU LOVE" I am 60 and could not fight a couple 18 year olds off a boat without help. I am not paranoid (a little cause I was shot)
but you HAVE TO EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. The world is a changin. There so many people killed everyday in these 3rd world countries. I never would have know except I am living here. Every day. It is so senseless.

I will alway carry A LEGAL GUN ON A BOAT. Declare it at the ports and keep a couple of spear guns on board. Those cute little harbors and bays are safe 99% of the time.. Why not prepare yourself and YOUR LOVE ONES for the 1%. You owe it to them
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:24   #80
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Mine too, classic father quote and great advice. Though the lesson here might be...be nice to your family so they don't hire someone to kill you...

Ok I am always nice. Money is a big motivator in life. People kill for it all the time. Kids kill other kids, convenience store employees and they kill their parents.

As for rape over death. How about Rape then Death. These people in the Caribbean are very nice and honorable people. Drugs and money have made the punks in gangs grow up without conscience and remorse. Nothing will probably happen to you. Just be prepared for the worst case. I was a private pilot with a plane for 30 years. Train train and train for the worst possible situations even though they probably will not happen.

"The Gift of Fear" Read it.
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:25   #81
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... So keep the gun loaded and ready and oiled up. DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE approaching your boat. At night be really prepared and ready.
Be prepared. Drill for it. Kill them first ...
Given that everyone, including your family, wants to kill you; Id suggest a fortress, instead of a boat.
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:27   #82
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The occurrence of parricide involves different types of parricide offenders. Some incidences involve individuals who have suffered parental abuse or neglect, while others involve individuals who suffer from a serious mental illness. In contrast, many incidences of parricide involve offenders who are affected by some psychopathic, non-psychotic type of process that can guides one's homicidal behavior. Yet, there are offenders who reveal no signs of mental illness nor disclose abuse as a motive to kill, but may reveal serious anti-social personality traits. The authors concentrate on the anti-social reason why children kill, and they believe that these adult children exhibit psychopathic traits enhancing the probability that they perceive violence as a solution to a problem. Noting that this single type of homicide can be committed by different types of parricide offenders is important, especially when considering options for prevention and protection.
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Old 04-09-2009, 16:10   #83
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When does your desire to carry a weapon offshore (and, no, once outside the U.S., it is no longer your automatic right) interfere with my desire to be safe and secure? If you mow down a fisherman because you couldn't tell the difference between coconuts and hand grenades, the natives are going to be a lot less friendly (and maybe a lot more dangerous) when I get there.

Hey, just a thought. Hope that didn't come off as snarky.
I was only concerned with the crime in the Caribbean, but it amazes me a small boat with a few armed "pirates" could over take a large ship. Could it be, the rules/laws outside the US waters are the problem? We don't have many pirates in US waters. Anyone feels pretty safe cruising US waters. Maybe if a few of them were shot, you would in fact be safer. Pirates would think twice about trying to board a boat that might be armed. It really is that simple.
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Old 04-09-2009, 16:33   #84
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pirate Crime in the Caribbean

Most people and cruisers have very little idea about the everyday crime in the Caribbean and central America. I see the news here in Panama every night. It really is kinda of a bloodbath.. Honest. Tourist and Gringo's in the USA and cruisers are just not exposed to it.

On the news they hear only about the big stuff. It really is bloodly with innocents taking bullets on a steady basis from punks who just soon shoot you as talk to you..

They the guys with boat mostly resort to stealing small stuff like dingy's and outboards if they can get away with it easily. They steal them from the dingy dock and also quietly climb aboard your boat at night. They think that many Americans will not readily shoot them. The also get alot braver on drugs and drugs are cheap cheap cheap in Central America... Those are the scary ones.
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Old 04-09-2009, 18:09   #85
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Ok since this gun thread has pretty much exhausted itself...like they all eventually do (that's if they don't get shut down first).
So lets change things a little...
Who likes gun threads?
Who dislikes gun threads?
Why?
Personally, I like guns and own two of them. I do get tired of these gun threads though. The reason is mostly the repetition and then some of the sometimes bizarre and unrealistic ideas for protecting oneself....
I find these gun threads mildly amusing for awhile. But as you say, they soon get repetitious and boring. And yes, some of the opinions are bizarre, at least to me. That's what makes them amusing.

I like guns, am a Vietnam vet, and own about a half dozen each of handguns & long guns. Unless I was planning on hunting I don't carry a gun aboard, since pirates/thugs are not an issue in my current waters. I suppose there might be some circumstances where I might choose to carry a weapon, but if I felt that threatened I would probably just find some other place to sail. In most places outside the US, the hassle factor with differing laws and customs agents probably far outweighs the minimal chance that the weapon might save me.

Here in Alaska people get into similar endless debate about carrying a gun for bear protection (it's generally legal to do so). As an experienced shooter, I'm of the opinion that at least 75% of the people carrying guns are simply not qualified to do so. Unless you are willing to fire (at a minimum) several hundred rounds in serious initial trainging, and then practice regularly to keep you skills up, you have no business carrying a firearm for any defensive purpose IMHO.
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Old 04-09-2009, 19:10   #86
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Quote:
I find these gun threads mildly amusing for awhile. But as you say, they soon get repetitious and boring. And yes, some of the opinions are bizarre, at least to me. That's what makes them amusing.
After 6 years it's worse than boring even if the familar repetition has a certain I know the end of the movie before I know who directed the film sound to it. They end badly and we close them - always and eventually this thread too shall fall. They come back and the cycle repeats after a rest. We consider it the hazard of having a forum. At least this stuff isn't littered amoung the good threads. For those that enjoy this stuff don't worry it will be back. For those familiar with CF they can spot the thread and ignore it should they choose. Most people are eventually satisfied.
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Old 04-09-2009, 19:21   #87
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Might be interesting to run a poll- How many non US registered boats carry guns?
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Old 04-09-2009, 19:32   #88
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As a singlehandler I spent three weeks anchored amongst the locals in the islands of northwestern Panama including the town of David (Da-vi), the second largest city in the country. I was invited into locals homes for dinner as well as ferried from my boat to town numerous times. I then sailed to Balboa were I stayed on a mooring at Balboa Yacht Club for two weeks before moving my boat to the Pedro Migel Yacht Club within the Canal for an additional two weeks before I flew back to the states for a wedding during the 9/11 week. Returning I spent the next six weeks at the Yacht Club visiting Panama Citsy numerous times and acting as a linehandler three times. I then finished my transit and stayed at anchor on the "flats" near Colon, which I visited several times.
My experinces while in Panama were very positive and rewarding. The people were very friendly and outgoing with a keen sense of humor.
I'm sorry to hear that your time spent in Panama was not as enjoyable as mine was.

To repeat what I wrote in a previous post: if you're so worried or scared of the people you'll meet cruising that you must carry a gun, stay home. You, me, and everyone else will be more happy when you do.
regards John
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Old 04-09-2009, 20:00   #89
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I know a guy who made a sabot shotgun cartridge with washers stacked in it.

The damage and the noise they make going thru the air is reported to be scary.
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Old 04-09-2009, 21:01   #90
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I have spent a few years cruising in the western Caribbean. Spent time in Columbia, Panama, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.
Yes there is a lot of violence on the shoreline and if you are careless you will loose you dingy as they want the motor. In all the years of spending time in the above area I have never experienced any problem on the boat which would require the need of a gun.
To them we are millionaires. We are when one considers they may at best make $5 to $10 a day swinging a machete in the heat. It costs them $4 a day for formula to feed their newborn as they are advised to do in some areas.
On shore is where the violence is, a lot of it at times. There are areas you just do not go. I know, I have walked through some of them. Seen some of what goes on there. These are the areas you might “need” a gun and if so why did you go there.
I have had pilfering of gear off our deck at night, someone tried to steal the dingy once. Shooting them seems a little extreme. Would you do the same back home? To whom would shooting someone who was stealing you dingy make an example to. The local government will make an example; they will clap you in prison, as they should.
Having a wire cored line to the dingy and a chain to lock the motor to the davits and not leaving loose equipment on deck seems more appropriate. We also raise the dingy whenever it is not in immediate use. Going ashore even in remote areas we use our rope/wire to lock the dingy to trees. Even visiting another boat we secure it. One evening in San Blass 7 dinghies went missing. The locals needed new motors to push their cayuga’s. They are heavy, extremely heavy, try paddling one; you would look for a motor too.
Years ago I lived in Mexico for a few years. The kids who daily washed my truck made as much or more than their fathers who spent the day in the selva swinging a machete. Watching the communal/family TV with its’ world class programs and ads didn’t help. They were being motivated to enrich their lives. Education is restricted due to its’ expense. Then there is the social classes, there being generally only two, the extreme wealthy and the poor. The wealthy wish to keep it that way; they work hard to keep it that way.
If I didn’t have the truck washed daily things went missing, wipers, mirrors, etc. One cannot blame the 95% of the population who own less than 5% of the country if they are looking for some extra cash.
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