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Old 04-09-2009, 13:02   #61
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There is no reason to call anyone "asinine", or to force your views of risk and survival on the world. Or your views of "who is ready to cruise" and who is not, based on such a strange criteria. Especially, when, while few and far in-between, there ARE real risks out there. How about, just because I have a strong opinion on a subject, I call your next legitimate question "asinine"? What a moronic response:
Wow....why don't you actually read the post instead of just glancing at it then acting like you read it. If you start at the top it reads "These threads are asinine". That means the THREADS about whether to carry a gun or not are asinine. I didn't call his question asinine. Nowhere do I attack the poster personally at all. Secondly...the VERY next sentence reads "While the poster has a legitimate question" ....wow....sounds almost like how YOU start your thread.....same words there..."legitimate"....Thirdly...you make comments about giving an adult response....I thought I did that...I compared the risks of being attacked to driving down the freeway...say...in Houston TX for example seeing the OPS is from TX...but anyways....most people got the picture....
It's ironic that you rail against me supposedly attacking the poster with my "asinine" comment (which I don't) then you say my response is "moronic"...POT...KETTLE????
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Old 04-09-2009, 13:25   #62
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. Give me an example of a cruiser who has gotten in serious trouble,and has done jail time, for only a single firearm(not an automatic weapon or assault rifle) ..

When I was in Acapulco around 2000 theere was a sailboat chained to the dock for having undeclared gun on board, never heard whehter the guy got it back.

About two years ago a well known Kiwi sailor was toessed in jail in Bali, same thing, believe he was locked up for over 12 months.

Probably others but those two came to mind when I read that.
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Old 04-09-2009, 13:55   #63
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Great topic. Defending yourself and love ones

Yes carry at least a shotgun on board. Maybe a couple spear guns. Carry the flare gun but with that you get one shot and if miss you are going to really piss them off. And I mean them.. There will be more than one. They will have at least the minimum knifes or machetes. Many of the gang youth in Central America have pistols. A shotgun scares them. You need a safety net around the boat so you will not be surprised. A shotgun blast will send them running. But remember they are not at all afraid to kill you. They will make you dead dead fast if you put up resistance. You need to make them dead first. You can not let them surprise you. You need to be ready with motion detector, dog, trip wire or whatever.

Remember Peter Blake. New Zealander America's Cup. A real life hero. Dead at the mouth of the Amazon from pirates. Got the gun out and malfunctioned and he was killed. So keep the gun loaded and ready and oiled up. DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE approaching your boat. At night be really prepared and ready.

Be prepared. Drill for it. Kill them first. Protect your loved ones. Do not run out on the deck at the boat screaming "get off my boat you f...kers . Scare em or kill em. Do you want to see your wife raped in front of your eyes. You have no choice but to be armed and ready. (Did I say that before?)

I was shot 6 times in Panama. I had a gun but I was not quite ready for the bad guys. I have a gun to protect my girl and me. Punks do not care about your life. They think so much different about life than we do.

Now after you defend yourself and shoot them dead. (Did I say that before?) What do you do? Very good question. 1. Stick around for the gang member, brothers and cousins to sink your boat while you and your wife are in for questioning. 2. Have cocktails on the boat while relatives come in the second wave. 3. Run like hell for the open ocean. It depends. No witness's and all bad guys are dead. Run like hell (sail away hummin sailing).. Really is a fairly easy answer but I am not sure I want to say it here. Just remember you may be waiting in the police department for a while with your passports confiscated. Surely contact your nearest USA consulate or whatever consulate from the country from whence you came.

There is a good chance I would run (sail like hell) to a different Country with an American consulate. Extraditing you back to one of these 3rd world countries is sometimes very difficult.

Protect your love ones first is the rule. Then get the hell out of there some circumstance. You wont protect anyone with a flare gun. One shot and you will probably miss and then you are one dead sailor. And what about your love ones after that (did I say that before).

Good luck
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:02   #64
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Yes carry at least a shotgun on board. Maybe a couple spear guns. Carry the flare gun but with that you get one shot and if miss you are going to really piss them off. And I mean them.. There will be more than one. They will have at least the minimum knifes or machetes. Many of the gang youth in Central America have pistols. A shotgun scares them. You need a safety net around the boat so you will not be surprised. A shotgun blast will send them running. But remember they are not at all afraid to kill you. They will make you dead dead fast if you put up resistance. You need to make them dead first. You can not let them surprise you. You need to be ready with motion detector, dog, trip wire or whatever.

Remember Peter Blake. New Zealander America's Cup. A real life hero. Dead at the mouth of the Amazon from pirates. Got the gun out and malfunctioned and he was killed. So keep the gun loaded and ready and oiled up. DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE approaching your boat. At night be really prepared and ready.

Be prepared. Drill for it. Kill them first. Protect your loved ones. Do not run out on the deck at the boat screaming "get off my boat you f...kers . Scare em or kill em. Do you want to see your wife raped in front of your eyes. You have no choice but to be armed and ready. (Did I say that before?)

I was shot 6 times in Panama. I had a gun but I was not quite ready for the bad guys. I have a gun to protect my girl and me. Punks do not care about your life. They think so much different about life than we do.

Now after you defend yourself and shoot them dead. (Did I say that before?) What do you do? Very good question. 1. Stick around for the gang member, brothers and cousins to sink your boat while you and your wife are in for questioning. 2. Have cocktails on the boat while relatives come in the second wave. 3. Run like hell for the open ocean. It depends. No witness's and all bad guys are dead. Run like hell (sail away hummin sailing).. Really is a fairly easy answer but I am not sure I want to say it here. Just remember you may be waiting in the police department for a while with your passports confiscated. Surely contact your nearest USA consulate or whatever consulate from the country from whence you came.

There is a good chance I would run (sail like hell) to a different Country with an American consulate. Extraditing you back to one of these 3rd world countries is sometimes very difficult.

Protect your love ones first is the rule. Then get the hell out of there some circumstance. You wont protect anyone with a flare gun. One shot and you will probably miss and then you are one dead sailor. And what about your love ones after that (did I say that before).

Good luck
Woah, that was intense.
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:10   #65
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panamajames,

do you check out first?
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:11   #66
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Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
When I was in Acapulco around 2000 theere was a sailboat chained to the dock for having undeclared gun on board, never heard whehter the guy got it back.
If I'm thinking of the same incident, dana-tenacity, it involved an Orange County man who was enroute back to California after doing missionary work. He put in to Mexico for repairs. When the authorities discovered an undeclared rifle on his vessel, he and his crew were arrested, the boat was impounded, and the rifle seized.

It took quite awhile for them to be freed, and though they were allowed to reboard their vessel and continue on to the States, the rifle was not returned. It was hard enough just to get them released and to get their boat back.

Here's a summary of Mexican Law and individual rights in Mexico when it comes to guns:
Quote:
Carrying a non-military gun can result in a prison sentence of 6 months to 3 years. Possession of a military weapon is punishable with 4 to 12 years. Anyone convicted of clandestine introduction of a firearm can receive a sentence of five to thirty years (for a military weapon) or from 2 to 8 years (non-military). Bail is not available for those charged with clandestine introduction. Weapons considered for exclusive use of the military are any revolver with a caliber greater than .38 special (including a .357 magnum and .38 super or commando); any automatic rifle or pistol; and shotguns larger than 12-gauge. Please note that any person crossing into Mexico with an undeclared firearm may be charged with clandestine introduction.
To read the entire summary, go to:

Cozumel Insider - Summary of Mexican Law - Individual Rights in Mexico - Cozumel Insider

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Old 04-09-2009, 14:15   #67
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Crusing with guns in Cuba

When I had my other boat and we were in Cuba around 1987. We had 4 guns on board. I had 2 shotguns and one guy had a 9mm and the other had a 22 sniper type rifle with a scope and laser.. and a soldier of fortune magazine.

Anyhow we checked into Cuba and I declared my shotguns. The other 2 guys just hid theirs. The guy who check us in was wearing 30 year old shoes and carting a 40 year old briefcase. My buddies were a little stupid but hid the guns.

Fast foward 40 days later on the Island of Youth, formerly Isla de Pinos. We were checking out of the country and not only did they bring the dog to search the boat but divers for under the boat and 5 guys to search everywhere. One of the military spotted the soldier of fortune magazine and a single 22 bullet. hmmmm Does that fit the shotgun he says. So the search intensified and they found the sniper rifle. hmmmm any more guns boys, the commandant says. The guy with the 9mm says, they will never find it. Well they did find it and were under arrest. House arrest on the boat, all 5 of us. They took all the guns, declared and undeclared. and ammo.
They said DO NOT USE THE SINGLE SIDE BAND nor talk to anyone. I knew that Cuba had used listening devices like the Russians. The said they were scanning the SSB frequencies and if we communicated with USA they would take our radios out.. They said they needed to find out what Havana wants to do with us they told us.. My friend started yelling that he was the son of a US Senator (he made it up). I am calm and calculating.

I decided that they had put a bug on the boat and were monitoring us. I got on the SSB one night late and called my girl in the USA. I calmly told her how stupid were were to forget to declare a couple of our weapons. Really I went on and on about how we forgot and we were sorry and very very stupid.
I knew they were listening (the cuban military) so I really hammed it up.
2 days later we were released handed our guns back, they counted out all the bullets to us one by one. We all shook hands and hugs and all that and we told them that we loved Cuba and its people. The asked me one thing. "please don't go back to USA and give bad propoganda against cuba. We agreed and told them we loved Cuba. We made friends for life there in Cuba.

2 weeks after we sailed two private US planes from Usa dropping propoganda leaflets over cuba were shot down and the pilots dies.... oooopps

I still love Cuba and the people and Hemmingway and all the history.

I am going back. Panamajames
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:18   #68
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Do you check out first was the question?

After killing 2 or 3 bad guys my advice is 'GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE" and not check out first. Now if you just wound a couple of them.. Shot a hole in their boat so the sharks enjoy a nice meal. A central american prison is a hell hole and hell hole. Do you want to be waiting around while everything is investigated ( they are so slow to investigate) bribes might work and then they may not. Get the hell down the road under the right circumstances.
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:20   #69
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Great story.
Smart too, you are.

You can now visit Cuba without getting your feet wet.

Just go to Miama!
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:26   #70
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THE FLARE gun for protection is a joke

For protection it is a joke. You will have all the dolphins laughing at you when you miss the perb. If you do hit him his brother and cousin will slice you up in little pieces while they rape your wife in front of you.. This is real world my friends. In Panama the other day the perb didnt like the $2.00 free for the taxi. The driver got mad at the guy and demanded the 2 buck. The punk got out took his gun 9mm out his shirt and fired on shot into the taxi drivers leg. Then he quietly walked off.
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:33   #71
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Wow, that is horrific. First, were you assaulted near Colon, Panama? I've never had the pleasure of docking there for a month waiting on the canal, but I've read several horror stories about the area and understand that it is a shady place. Also, Panama as a country is well...not a very happy wonderful place.

A few questions though, did the pirates shoot you after they saw you had a gun?
Do you think they would have shot if you had surrendered?
What was the scenario? Were you boarded at night, during the day, did you see them coming...etc.?
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:46   #72
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Le sigh,

I think telling all of us to go out weapons loaded ready to kill and flee the country is just about as ridiculous and irresponsible as me saying...

Quote:
Wow you were shot 6 times and survived! So the REAL solution to pirates is rely on their abysmal marksmanship. Just get on deck and do the hokey pokey (or some other dance) till the would be pirates have exhausted all of their ammo, and once you're done "shaking it all about"...Run away while the pirates return to shore to rearm.
Seriously, undeclared guns in Cuba? One of which being an assault rifle, and the other a sniper rifle...I'm starting to wonder if you're the type of sailer who invites trouble...

I do like guns, but I understand that guns do NOT equal safety for myself or those around me. It seems like in these types of scenarios guns are more of a false sense of security than anything...
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:48   #73
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Shot in Panama 6 times

It was in a car in the middle of the country. We stopped to pee on a turn out.
The guys sat back 100 years on the side of the road and waited for me to get out. We were 10 kilometers from Anton on the Pan American highway. The guys drove up and started shooting. If I would be out of the car I would be dead. If I would have been driving they would have shot me driving. I was sitting in the seat of my 4 Wd pickup and stopped. If I would be ready with my gun and turned toward them I would have taken a bullet maybe in the chest or vitals.. All bullets came through the car door and a couple through the windows. I saw the guy eyes and he was stoned out of his mind. That is why he missed the head shot. He shot 7 times from 5 ft and 2 times for my head from 3 ft. Lucky he was stoned. It happened so fast. In a boat you have some time.. But not much.

Now the rest of the story. One of my relatives hired someone to kill me. It was not a bandit. It was not my time to die. The relative left Panama while I was still in the hospital. Police in California offered him a lie detector test and he refused. When your time it up its up. On a boat just be prepared and use your instinct. BUY THE BOOK "The Gift of Fear" It may just save your life.
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Old 04-09-2009, 14:51   #74
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Seriously, undeclared guns in Cuba? I'm starting to wonder if you're the type of sailer who invites trouble...

I am not the type who invites trouble. The guys I was sailing with were arrogant. I declared my guns (2 shotguns) but they thought this guy checking us in was a flatfoot. I avoid problems and trouble. I am not a tough guy. I am a nice guy. I DO NOT INVITE TROUBLE. Trouble is everywhere and I have managed to avoid it most of my life. Thank You very much
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Old 04-09-2009, 15:00   #75
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It was in a car in the middle of the country. We stopped to pee on a turn out.
The guys sat back 100 years on the side of the road and waited for me to get out. We were 10 kilometers from Anton on the Pan American highway. The guys drove up and started shooting. If I would be out of the car I would be dead. If I would have been driving they would have shot me driving. I was sitting in the seat of my 4 Wd pickup and stopped. If I would be ready with my gun and turned toward them I would have taken a bullet maybe in the chest or vitals.. All bullets came through the car door and a couple through the windows. I saw the guy eyes and he was stoned out of his mind. That is why he missed the head shot. He shot 7 times from 5 ft and 2 times for my head from 3 ft. Lucky he was stoned. It happened so fast. In a boat you have some time.. But not much.

Now the rest of the story. One of my relatives hired someone to kill me. It was not a bandit. It was not my time to die. The relative left Panama while I was still in the hospital. Police in California offered him a lie detector test and he refused. When your time it up its up. On a boat just be prepared and use your instinct. BUY THE BOOK "The Gift of Fear" It may just save your life.
Ok, that is a pretty awesome story. If you had the time or don't mind hijacking this tread it'd be interesting to hear WHY your own family would try to assassinate you. Just...too interesting to ignore.

Aside from assassination attempts...have you ever had a need for a gun while cruising? Has anyone on here?

Seriously, now I can understand why you have so many well armed friends...if I were the target of hired guns I'd probably arm myself as well...
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