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Old 20-01-2010, 08:57   #1
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Carabiner vs Quick Release Shackle on Tether

This may seem a silly question but I was wondering about your opinions regarding the standard carabiner that comes on a safety vest tether vs the quick release shackle.
I understand wanting a quick release so that you can release yourself under load if the need arises but it would seem to me that the chance that the shackle wasn't closed properly (I have seen that done) or that it might snag on something as you are going over the side and open would negate the advantages.
This from Wikipedia "The snap shackle is not as secure as any other form of shackle, but can come in handy for temporary uses or in situations which must be moved or replaced often, such as a sailor's harness tether or to attach spinnaker sheets. Note: When this type of shackle is used to release a significant load, it will work rather poorly (hard to release) and is likely to have the pin assembly or the split ring fail."
What are your thoughts? My boat partner went with the quick release and I went with the standard biner.
I get the impression that there are plus's and minus's to both.
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Old 20-01-2010, 15:55   #2
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For a safety harness tether a quick release is OK AT THE HARNESS. At the other end that attaches to the vessel, you want a double action safety hooks. Deluxe Expandable Double Tether (Finished)#
I prefer the double action release at both ends.

The con of the quick release is that it may kill you when it opens at the wrong time. Not an option for me.
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Old 20-01-2010, 20:03   #3
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See for me, I prefer the safety carabiners we use at the FD. Its a self locking carabiner, opening with one hand, and locks securely. Again, not everyone will agree, but for me, the added safety is second nature...
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Old 21-01-2010, 02:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner View Post
opinions regarding the standard carabiner that comes on a safety vest tether vs the quick release shackle.
The trade-off is pretty clear and the opinion of the safety experts is split.

On the boat end you definitely want something that cannot open accidentally.

On the harness end the trade-off is this: if you have a fitting that can be released under load it might accidentally released when you don't want it to . . . BUT . . . if you have a fitting that cannot be released under load then you can get trapped under the boat, (in a roll), or trapped under rigging, by your tether and drown because you cannot release it.

There are ways to mitigate the downside of either option. If you have a fitting that cannot release under load then you should have a knife with you all the time that can definitely be easily be accessed and used by one hand to cut the tether if you get trapped. If you have a fitting that can be released under load you only want a really good positive one - like a sparcraft shackle where the odds of accidental release are smaller than being hit by a meteorite.
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Old 21-01-2010, 07:33   #5
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I think the way for me to go is the standard shackle and a knife. If you ever watched the tv show NCIS the leader of the group calls it rule number nine. Never, ever go anywhere without a knife. I agree.
Having said that I would not wear my folding knife but rather a sheaf knife for obvious reasons.
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Old 21-01-2010, 08:11   #6
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Back in the good ole days in the Navy working on the helo flight deck we carried a hook knife simular to theses Gerber Safety Hook Knife
just in case we cut a pilot loose or ourselves from a cargo net.

When the weather starts to gets rough I put on a life vest that has one attached, as well as other survival junk.

But yeah! Go with the one handed release safety hooks. Wichard Double Action Safety Hook Yellow
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:55   #7
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We use the Gibb double hook as its the safest. But we both carry an out the front knofe on a lanyard for emergencies they are quick easy to deploy with one hand even when cold and very sharp
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:26   #8
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Quick release at my end.

b.
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Old 12-02-2010, 17:16   #9
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I'm, contray, I supose - I like carabiners for their quick ease of one-hande use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner View Post
I think the way for me to go is the standard shackle and a knife. If you ever watched the tv show NCIS the leader of the group calls it rule number nine. Never, ever go anywhere without a knife. I agree.
Having said that I would not wear my folding knife but rather a sheaf knife for obvious reasons.
I do not believe that that a spin shackle can be handled as positively and as quickly in poor conditions as a climbing biner. I know that I can grope around in the rain, in the dark, in the snow with climbing biners, time after time, clipping them and unclipping them accurately with one hand. I know that I can quickly unclip one under body weight - more load than that, no I can't.

I suppose it depends on the boat, too. My thoughts are for a cruising catamaran, where a capsize is as likely as being struck by lightening, but clipping errors are more probable. On a monohull driven hard, knock-downs are more probable as are waves crashing over the deck, so the concerns are different. On a cat quick deck motion is the cheif hazard... along with simple bumble feet in the dark. Neither of those would benefit from a quick release feature.

I also use a standard (non-locking biner) on my secondary short tether leg. As long as the long (main) leg biner is locked, I would rather the short one be quick.

The jackline end should certainly be a locking type biner. Many types are suitable.

Some thoughts on jacklines and the like, on a cruising cat. Sail Delmarva: Search results for jack lines climbing gear

I don't believe one size fits all. My opinions would be different if I sailed monohulls, so I don't disagree with other posters.
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Old 12-02-2010, 18:30   #10
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If you ask OSHA its not safety gear unless it has a double mechanism. Single action hooks will get you a fine on a jobsite fwiw.
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Old 12-02-2010, 19:06   #11
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Quote:
...a capsize is as likely as being struck by lightening, but clipping errors are more probable.
Perhaps, but capsize is one example. The more likely is you will be thrown overboard because you purchased a tether that allows you to be and then are dragged through the water until you drown.

Bottom line? - You need a way, in cold water, to get out of your tether. Knives are unlikely to be a good candidate because most people do not wear them where they are easily reached at such times. (Although I am sure we will hear from plenty now)
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Old 12-02-2010, 20:33   #12
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Please, explain when you would release your tether in the water...

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Perhaps, but capsize is one example. The more likely is you will be thrown overboard because you purchased a tether that allows you to be and then are dragged through the water until you drown.

Bottom line? - You need a way, in cold water, to get out of your tether. Knives are unlikely to be a good candidate because most people do not wear them where they are easily reached at such times. (Although I am sure we will hear from plenty now)
... and then hope the boat can find you. At night you're dead. Apparently no one is in good control if the boat cannot be brought to a near stop and haul you up. It's going to be complicated. Scary.

Better, quickly clip a spare spin sheet to the harness and then cut the tether away (crew). No crew? You're dead anyway, brother.

No, I can't imagine being able to cut myself loose. I agree, that is at most wishful, at least undependable.

Tethers on cats can easily be rigged inboard to where be thrown over is IMPOSSIBLE. The bow is 15-20 feet wide!

As I said, I was speaking of a cat that does not lean and folks do not slide off the deck. Different. Please do not compare the application to a monohull.
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Old 12-02-2010, 20:48   #13
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I would like to see OSHA go adventure sailing or rock climbing.

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If you ask OSHA its not safety gear unless it has a double mechanism. Single action hooks will get you a fine on a jobsite fwiw.
I think it would be pretty funny to watch. I'm quite certain a strong man could not lift a climber's rack of rope and biners if built to OSHA's liking, let alone climb anything interesting or signifigant. Most of the rigging strength requirements were designed by climbers (like the energy absorbing tethers), and then made heavy and paranoid to suit the lowest common denominator of the work place.

You would also need OSHA railings, stairs.... No, not at all applicable, In most peoples thinking.

I don't want to live in an OSHA world, in my free time.

(I work in a refinery and know OSHA fall protection very standards well)
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Old 13-02-2010, 02:25   #14
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cabiners & life lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefaa View Post
Perhaps, but capsize is one example. The more likely is you will be thrown overboard because you purchased a tether that allows you to be and then are dragged through the water until you drown.

Bottom line? - You need a way, in cold water, to get out of your tether. Knives are unlikely to be a good candidate because most people do not wear them where they are easily reached at such times. (Although I am sure we will hear from plenty now)
Just a little thought. I inspected 12 ocean going yachts in France and found that on 3 of them I could pull the life line off the deck and break the ends because the stitching was no good. How many of you check the stitching? We use anchor points on the centre line of the deck from cockpit to bow and have 12mm threestrand rope spliced to gibb double hooks. This way we cant be thrown overboard. This system has been used by me for 40 years. Happy sailing folks.
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Old 13-02-2010, 04:53   #15
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Solo I use a lightweight climbing harness and one of these Grigri (climbing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Works great, easy adjustment of the length of the safety sling, excellent for working at the mast, lean back into the harness and both hands free. Crabs I use are all standard twist gate lock climbing ones, need a spray with lubricant quite often.
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