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Old 23-09-2014, 14:30   #1
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Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

This product:

Amazon.com : ODEO M3 LED Electronic Flare : Sports & Outdoors

Is said to be "Coast Guard Approved"

Does that mean I don't have to carry incendiary flares
if I have one of these aboard?
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Old 23-09-2014, 16:45   #2
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

At least as of May 2014 electronic flares have not been approved as a replacement for pyrotechnic flares by the USCG. However they are allowed in addition to.

I would love for this to be changed but as of yet it doesn't appear to be. However there is hope. The Coast Guard is researching this actively so there may be some movement soon.
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Old 23-09-2014, 17:13   #3
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

I dunno about the USCG. But the rest of the world allows electronic flares.

Its obviously the way of the future.

Mark
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Old 23-09-2014, 17:14   #4
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

$185 !!!! Holy moly ... I pay $10 for flares!
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Old 23-09-2014, 17:27   #5
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

This is fairly recent https://www.amsa.gov.au/forms-and-pu...ns/amsa577.pdf
you can carry and use what ever you want in a distress situation .. but it seems they cannot be carried instead of the traditional ones.
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Old 23-09-2014, 17:36   #6
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I dunno about the USCG. But the rest of the world allows electronic flares.

Its obviously the way of the future.

Mark
The question was can he carry Laser (electronic) Flares instead of the normal Pyrotechnics to which Stumble responded to....

The same applies in Australia, you can carry them but not at the expense of carrying normal approved pyrotechnics, there are currently no approved Laser Flares on the market (in Aus) that allow you to forgo carrying Pyrotechnic Flares....

EDIT: Dam my slow typing , as El Pinguino said....
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Old 23-09-2014, 17:55   #7
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

According to Odeo website this is NOT ANYMORE a laser flare but a LED flare.

Somehow they forgot to drop the price to allow for the cheaper technology.

No info on how a laser flare compares to a led flare either.

Also:
"...
Is the Odeo Flare accepted under SOLAS regulations as an alternative to the hand held flare?

Not yet. However, the Odeo Flare makes a recognised distress signal as described in Annex 4 to the International Rules For The Prevention Of collisions At Sea (Colregs). Until SOLAS rules are change, coded and commercial vessels must still carry pyrotechnic flares.


..."


So, much as I loved their original idea of a LASER FLARE I would not bet my money and life on their newer, equally expensive LED FLARE.


I hope posters here will correct me if my leads are out of date or simply incorrect.


I may buy one if they reduce the price to reflect on what a red LED torch costs these days.



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Old 23-09-2014, 17:57   #8
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I dunno about the USCG. But the rest of the world allows electronic flares.

Its obviously the way of the future.

Mark
Electronic flares may indeed be the way of the future, but I, for one, prefer the smell of cordite and phosphorous. I've seen too many "brand new" A-type batteries falter from day one, and I wouldn't trust them for anything more urgent or essential than my girlfriend's vibrator.

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Old 23-09-2014, 18:16   #9
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

I would trust them, but not without SOLAS approval. There are a lot of good reasons why these may not be approved yet as an alternative, but those issues may disappear after they have been researched.

And frankly the cost doesn't bother me. Since there is no good way to dispose of pyro flares around here we just have a bucket with decades old flares rotting away. The fire department won't take them, the USCG won't let us shoot them off for training, and the dump won't accept them. Getting rid of the things is my issue. And I don't think that a flashlight is a reasonable comparison, the led flared are supposed to be visible from 20 miles.
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Old 23-09-2014, 22:01   #10
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
$185 !!!! Holy moly ... I pay $10 for flares!
10$?? I guess that you don't carry parachute flares... the only ones that work worth a damn IMO. The SOLAS parachute flares are WAY more expensive than 10$, depending on where you buy them. Here in Oz just simple Pains-Wessex parachute jobs are 42$ each, and the SOLAS ones a bit more.

I for one don't think they are particularly useful these days, and I get weary of buying and disposing of them. An electronic substitute that worked and had no use-by date other than battery replacement would be great IMO. After all, most rescues these days are initiated by radio or EPIRB.

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Old 23-09-2014, 23:25   #11
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
10$?? I guess that you don't carry parachute flares... the only ones that work worth a damn IMO. The SOLAS parachute flares are WAY more expensive than 10$, depending on where you buy them. Here in Oz just simple Pains-Wessex parachute jobs are 42$ each, and the SOLAS ones a bit more.

I for one don't think they are particularly useful these days, and I get weary of buying and disposing of them. An electronic substitute that worked and had no use-by date other than battery replacement would be great IMO. After all, most rescues these days are initiated by radio or EPIRB.

Jim
I was comparing apples to apples - handheld LED flare vs handheld pyrotechnic flare. If you can throw the electronic flare several hundred feet in the air to equal a parachute flare then you can also throw the regular flare that high
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Old 24-09-2014, 03:17   #12
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

I don't remember where I read it, may have been another thread (so you know it's true), but apparently the USCG doesn't like the laser ones because they are dangerous to the SAR pilots. The lasers are pretty powerful and can cause eye damage, so if the pilot get hit be the beam while lowering that helo down over you, he's going to be pretty upset when one of his eyes isn't working like it should, temporarily or permanently.

But that's just what I remember reading. I think it's a step forward but they haven't hit the nail to the wood yet.
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Old 24-09-2014, 20:59   #13
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeltje View Post
I've seen too many "brand new" A-type batteries falter from day one, and I wouldn't trust them for anything more urgent or essential than my girlfriend's vibrator.
We have no way to judge either how urgent or essential that is.
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Old 24-09-2014, 21:13   #14
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

Not an electronic flare, but a light can substitute for pyrotechnics. Problem is the only manufacturer that made one that had the certs to make it legal stopped making them.


chap 33
175.130 Visual distress signals accepted.
(a) Any of the following signals, when carried in the number required, can be used to meet the requirements of 175.110:

(1) An electric distress light meeting the standards of 46 CFR 161.013. One is required to meet the night only requirement.




chap 46
161.013-3 General performance requirements.
(a) Each electric light must:
(1) Emit a white light which meets the intensity requirements of 161.013-5;
(2) Be capable of automatic signaling in a manner which meets the requirements of 161.013-7;
(3) Contain an independent power source which meets the requirements of 161.013-9;
(4) Float in fresh water with the lens surface at or above the surface of the water;
(5) Be equipped with a waterproof switch; and
(6) Meet the requirement of paragraphs (a) (1) through (4) of this section after floating for at least 72 hours followed by submersion in 5% by weight sodium chloride solution for at least 2 hours.
(b) The electric light may not be equipped with a switch mechanism which permits continuous display of a beam of light except that the light may be equipped with a switch which returns to the off position when pressure is released.
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Old 25-09-2014, 07:42   #15
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Re: Can I Forgo Incendiary Flares for Laser Flare?

I am a retired US Navy helicopter pilot and have done many over ocean searches. I strongly encourage that both be carried and used as it is exceedingly difficult to spot people and even moderately sized vessels on the ocean, particularly if there is any appreciable sea state. If you are the subject of a search and hear/see a search aircraft, fire off incendiary flare(s) when it is most likely the aircraft is on a track where your flare(s) are likely to be seen. If the aircraft does not respond by heading your direction, then use the laser to try and get the crew's attention. Once is becomes obvious that you have been seen, meaning the aircraft changes its search pattern and heads toward you, stop using the laser as they can damage one's eyes if looked at. And, hail the aircraft on VHF Channel 16 as well as using flares. They're listening for your hail.
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