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Old 25-03-2009, 19:18   #16
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I was amazed that it was so close to Langkawi, which I figured to be safe, as it is far from remote.

I have planned on basing myself loosely in the area and using Phithak Shipyard and Services as a place to get the boat slipped when required, so it's just brought a dose of reality and yes a bit of fear as to what can possibly happen in what I figured to be a very safe area.

Back to looking at numbers of vessels and transits compared to crimes to give me a more realistic % of trouble, I am sure it will prove minuscule.

Dave
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Old 25-03-2009, 19:20   #17
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Yep, no issue with that explanation at all, just though Celestials explanation was just plain wrong.


thats a big sneak

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Ya Dave take a credit for being right..............Perhaps I was having sun stroke when someone told me to secure my belongings. Happy now?
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Old 25-03-2009, 20:27   #18
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I wonder how this might have been different if only he had a sturdy locked hatch, and a loud and bright siren.

So sad. Must not let the missus see.
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Old 26-03-2009, 09:35   #19
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Statistical risk?
I looked up risk of being murdered in various places...

In round numbers (10's) the chances of being murdered by location per 100,000 people is:

USA generally 10 in 100,000
Miami 20 in 100,000
Caribbean 20 in 100,000
Somalia 30 in 100,000
Liberty City, Miami 40 in 100,000

What is the risk to cruisers? We are presently reading of about 1 murder per month...round numbers 10/year. The question then is: how many cruisers are there out there?

Is it 10,000? 100,000? or more? Is it an estimatable number?

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Old 26-03-2009, 21:50   #20
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Statistical risk?
I looked up risk of being murdered in various places...

In round numbers (10's) the chances of being murdered by location per 100,000 people is:

USA generally 10 in 100,000
Miami 20 in 100,000
Caribbean 20 in 100,000
Somalia 30 in 100,000
Liberty City, Miami 40 in 100,000

What is the risk to cruisers? We are presently reading of about 1 murder per month...round numbers 10/year. The question then is: how many cruisers are there out there?

Is it 10,000? 100,000? or more? Is it an estimatable number?

Phil
Thanks for the stats Phil...scary really. I doubt there are 100,000 a year, so at 10 deaths a year, it's quite high. I think 10,000 would be optimistic and that would calc out to 100 per 100,000...yikes!
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Old 26-03-2009, 23:25   #21
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In computing the risk of lethal violence to cruisers, you would have to adjust your statistics for location and cruising habits of those subjected to violence.

Location is everything, and cruising habits are probably equally important.

Cruising alone - probably greater risks.
Cruising in areas with a history of violence - probably greater risk.
Not locking your boat up at night - probably greater risks.

In thirty years of sailing, I don't personally know people who were assaulted except in Pirate Alley in the Gulf of Aden.

Cruising isn't particularly risky. The risk comes from the choices you make about destinations and about the way you run your boat.

I don't go to convenience stores at night in America because of the risks involved. Similarlly, I try to cruise in a manner that minimizes risk. If I feel unsafe, I move the boat or head offshore and heave to.
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Old 27-03-2009, 07:18   #22
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From a synopsis of the event from a close friend of the family (posted on another board):

This we believe may be a one-off in special circumstances where the three Myanmar culprits escaped from a Thai fishing boat where they were been treated as slaves.
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Old 27-03-2009, 08:07   #23
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From a synopsis of the event from a close friend of the family (posted on another board)...
This is from close friends on another yacht stationed in Phuket. Names left out to protect their privacy.

"It is in a state of grief and disbelief we write this account of the recent tragic event which culminated in Malc's murder, to inform mutual cruising friends as well as others sailing these waters. Some of you may have read media reports but this is a succinct version of Lindie's own story :

On Tues 24th March Mr Bean was lying to a buoy off the SE side of Koh Adang in the Butang Group (20nm NW of Telaga, Langkawi). At around 00.30 three teenage, illegal immigrants from Myanmar swam out and climbed aboard, where they attacked Malc in the bow incapacitating him, then Lindie in the aft cabin. She was trussed with rope. Malc subsequently came round and challenged them, telling them to get off the boat. Lindie heard a scream then nothing more.

They eventually came to get her to assist in starting the engine. As she went through the saloon she realised that the sticky substance beneath her feet was a large quantity of thick blood. She was returned to the forepeak. They stormed off at full throttle for around six hours probably heading east around the north of Koh Tarutoa before anchoring in a bay on a small island about 1nm off the Thai mainland near Langu. There they trashed the boat before leaving at around 10am in the dinghy with an unreliable 2HP engine. Lindie managed to escape, start the engine and get up the anchor before they could paddle back to Mr Bean.

She went to a nearby fishing fleet to get help and when the Taratoa Park Rangers and police arrived they took-off and quickly arrested the attackers. Lindie was detained in hospital, very distraught and bruised by hammer blows and bindings. We think Malc's body was thrown overboard within an hour of the boat setting off and it has not as yet been found. The hammer an knife used in the attack were both from Mr Bean.

This we believe may be a one-off in special circumstances where the three Myanmar culprits escaped from a Thai fishing boat where they were been treated as slaves. How what they claimed was a raid to get food went so terribly wrong we will never know. They were all in their teens, the youngest being 15. Perhaps a return to the Caribbean tactic of locking yourself in at night when in remote anchorages should be considered.

Words cannot describe the exceptional support that Lindie has received from the British Embassy, Royal Thai Police, Hospital and Tourist Authority. There have been countless expressions of kindness from every quarter.

We were involved when, along with the family, Lindie told the embassy staff of Dave & Di on Amoenitas in Phuket. The local Honourary Consul traced us to the hardstand at the Royal Phuket where the teak decks are being replaced. We took-off in a car on a seven hour drive to be with her for the day before their four children arrive.

This is a very brief description of a long and harrowing experience during which Lindie spent the whole night pleading for her life. There is much, much more to tell but not in this format."
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Old 27-03-2009, 08:57   #24
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... and, you know, if you doused the killers in gasoline and set them ablaze somebody would complain. Anybody got a match?

I guess it could be seen as a waste of perfectly good fuel. OK, I have an extra jib halyard...
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Old 27-03-2009, 11:31   #25
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Cruising isn't particularly risky. The risk comes from the choices you make about destinations and about the way you run your boat.

I don't go to convenience stores at night in America because of the risks involved. Similarlly, I try to cruise in a manner that minimizes risk. If I feel unsafe, I move the boat or head offshore and heave to.
Well said!
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Old 27-03-2009, 12:10   #26
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Thanks for the stats Phil...scary really. I doubt there are 100,000 a year, so at 10 deaths a year, it's quite high. I think 10,000 would be optimistic and that would calc out to 100 per 100,000...yikes!
I doubt seriously if it's one murder aboard a yacht/month. Looking at Noonsite (Noonsite: Piracy), I see three murders all last year and one so far this year. Add in the incident in Thailand, and that's five murders over 15 months. So, averaged out, it's more like about 1 every three months, or 4/year. Btw, one of those (in January of this year) was aboard a 163' luxury yacht -- a bit more of a target than most of us represent.
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Old 27-03-2009, 12:18   #27
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I doubt seriously if it's one murder aboard a yacht/month. Looking at Noonsite (Noonsite: Piracy), I see three murders all last year and one so far this year. Add in the incident in Thailand, and that's five murders over 15 months. So, averaged out, it's more like about 1 every three months, or 4/year. Btw, one of those (in January of this year) was aboard a 163' luxury yacht -- a bit more of a target than most of us represent.
That would lower it to approximately 40 @ 100,000. Still high. These are not my numbers of course. Just what has been posted here.
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Old 27-03-2009, 14:57   #28
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Terrible tragedy; I don't want more I can say about it.

Sounds like a case of being at the dead wrong place at the dead wrong time. No way to see that event headed towards you. Prayers out to the family.
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Old 28-03-2009, 03:17   #29
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A bit of context for the story.........

Burmese Illegals are the employees of choice for many Thai Business operations. Dirt cheap, desperate and easy to control. Thailand is a 3rd world country, imagine what your own country must be like to make being an illegal immigrant into a 3rd world country a better option. Especially working for Thais. especially as Burmese - with whom the Thais have certain historic issues a) they are not Thai b) they are foreigners c) they have fought numerous wars with the Burmese over centuries and d) usually lost to the Burmese (despite what the school history books say / omit)......treating the Burmese Illegals as slaves? Not only possible more like SOP, even without physical chains - after all when officialdom is part of the process / system (to varying degrees) then being an illegal abroad means in practice you are at the complete mercy of others, chained or not. Although with the women in the locals sex industry the chain thing is not unheard of.

"Sneaking accross the border" ? LOL That's Thaispeak for "it's an organised big business shipping these folk into Thailand for the benefit of Thai businessmen". Independents sneaking accross the Border? I won't say it is impossible, but dangerous enuf dealing with the organised folk - I certainly wouldn't want to be short hcanging the proffessionals on both sides of the border. Whether or not in Uniform.

Burmese down south? Makes sense, given that the locals have a insurgency going on involving killing the Thai Officialdom (Police, Army, Govt employees - including Teachers) amongst others so not a popular place for even the average poor Thai to go and work. Burmese would be perfect, as after all: "Business is Business", even in a warzone. The locals down south in Thailand being Muslim is not really at the heart of the problem - mainly it's cos' they are not ethnically Thai and historically their region was not Thai and don't want to be (The English gave the regions to the Thais beginning of last Century probably cos' of the uppity locals / as a joke on the Thais ).

Ok the above, does not excuse the Burmese killing the skipper, but maybe puts a bit of context into how these things come about. Unfortunately sometimes their is no cure for bad luck. Whilst foreigners can get guns licensed in Thailand (ashore at least) it is not an easy process - and in this case the simpler alternative would have been to lock the hatches. and then if they persist hit them a couple of times with a machete. It is what the locals would do. Well, many of them.......of course I would not recomend going around killing the (non-Illegal) locals as a preventive measure Especially bearing in mind locals usually have freinds. Sometimes you also need freinds to sort that stuff out for you / act as a preventative measure....but that's not something you pick up whilst passing through an area. and another subject - on another forum.
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Old 28-03-2009, 13:24   #30
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I remember reading Slocums' Around the World Alone, and his use of tacks on deck. I have steel decks, so tacks would be a treat, easy to place, easy to clean up at daylight. I can't see the local people wearing anything other than flipflops or sneakers. Most would be barefoot.

Lay the tacks down after dark, and leave path across the coach roof to the foredeck so you can check the anchor. Sweep them up at daybreak before washing the deck so it appears as part of your daily cleaning.

Sabre

As for poking things thru the hatchs, I have a hand and a half bastard sword about 48 inches long. Its blade will fit handily thru the gap.
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