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Old 28-01-2010, 23:48   #76
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Car jackings in US per year - 49,000 - source Wikipedia
Pitate attacks in South China Sea 2009 - 13 - source IMB Piracy Reporting Centre.

It seems you are 3,769 times more likely to run into a gun toting robber driving your car, than I am sailing my boat.

I should look into electric fences if I were you
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Old 29-01-2010, 08:05   #77
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Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
Car jackings in US per year - 49,000 - source Wikipedia
Pitate attacks in South China Sea 2009 - 13 - source IMB Piracy Reporting Centre.

It seems you are 3,769 times more likely to run into a gun toting robber driving your car, than I am sailing my boat.

I should look into electric fences if I were you
Uh... You have the numerators for the statistics, but you forgot the denominators. Politicians do this all the time. Somehow, I think I'm more likely to get hijacked if I take the boat to Somalia or the South China Sea, then I am to get carjacked living here in South Texas. If I don't take the boat to Somalia, my chances of getting hijacked there are zero.
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Old 29-01-2010, 08:36   #78
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Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
Uh... You have the numerators for the statistics, but you forgot the denominators. Politicians do this all the time. Somehow, I think I'm more likely to get hijacked if I take the boat to Somalia or the South China Sea, then I am to get carjacked living here in South Texas. If I don't take the boat to Somalia, my chances of getting hijacked there are zero.
You are exactly right. Taking such a simplistic approach to statics leads to complete inaccuracy. You have to look at the RATIO to find whether or not something is likely. I used to make a living on crunching statistics into pivot tables, so I know of what I speak. Let's see how many there would be if we took 49,000 sailboats to the South China Sea.

I'll take my chances here, thank you. And if I go there, I'll be armed to the extent that it is legal. Hey, perhaps the container ships that are taken by the pirates should just throw cans of spam at them. I'll bet that would make them run!
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Old 29-01-2010, 08:50   #79
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Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
I don't think I've stayed off any pirates - I've certainly diffused a few situations with opportunists but I've never stopped a group of people whose living is made by boarding ships illegally. I don't think I could - even with a gun.

I don't consider opportunists to fall under the category of 'pirate' by the way - even though technically they may be committing the crime - the situation is very different.

The tankers strategy is full lighting and manned firehoses to sink approaching boats. I don't know how many carry guns, I doubt it is very many.

I think Muskoka makes a good point - if you feel so threatened that you feel need to take such drastic measures, its probably better that you go somewhere you find less threatening.
And fire hoses evidently don't help, because they are still boarded.

I would hope that your considerations of these criminals and how you minimize their aggression does not come back to bite you some day.

My point is that I would be well-equipped enough travelling in these areas, that I would not feel threatened.
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Old 29-01-2010, 08:52   #80
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The OP on the electric fence always amuses me when I read them but the problem is they don't differentiate between the truly bad guy and the 10 year old kid that paddles out to try and sell you some fish and grabs the rail to hold on. His parents and most of the village will probable not like the idea too much and I suspect your invitation to the local feast would be some time coming.

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Old 29-01-2010, 10:25   #81
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Apples and oranges

Statistics were mentioned a couple of times so I thought it would be interesting to look up the actual stats. It struck me as most piracy has nothing to do with pleasure craft at all and in fact it seems that is the case. There are areas where it does occur but misperception seems to play a major role. Of course someone climbing on board a boat to steal anything not tied down won't likely make it into the stats - but I don't know that it qualifies as an act on the high seas.

These are the people keeping stats:
IMB Piracy Reporting Centre

This synopsis indicates no acts against cruisers in 12 years in the asian seas:
sail-world.com -- Asia Piracy - Malacca and Bengal Up

The cia's report doesn't contain stats but pleasure craft are mentioned primarily in the Gulf of Aden off the east coast of Africa (Yemen - Somalia) and Venezuala.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2008.html

An interesting read:
Noonsite: False Perceptions Of Piracy Against Yachts In Asia
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Old 29-01-2010, 12:13   #82
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Originally Posted by jkd View Post
The OP on the electric fence always amuses me when I read them but the problem is they don't differentiate between the truly bad guy and the 10 year old kid that paddles out to try and sell you some fish and grabs the rail to hold on. His parents and most of the village will probable not like the idea too much and I suspect your invitation to the local feast would be some time coming.

John
Trick is to use the electric solution only out of sight of land, in international waters. There, no one has any business trying to board you. Not many ten year olds out there.
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Old 29-01-2010, 22:18   #83
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I think the majority of people reading this kind of thread are dreaming about fort knox security for their unattended boat.Electric fences are not for that.I think a fence would be good to have when you are already established in an anchorage and you see or hear something that bothers you.For whatever reason you cant,or wont leave immediately.A fence that is quick and easy to clip on would be good to have.No way is it 100% protection,but it is something.The last killing on the Rio Dulce.An electric fence might have saved him.The killers swam out to their boat.

That's the point. Imagine the intending killers reaching up and grabbing a handful of X,000 volts, while nicely grounded in the sea. Poooom!
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Old 29-01-2010, 22:22   #84
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The OP on the electric fence always amuses me when I read them but the problem is they don't differentiate between the truly bad guy and the 10 year old kid that paddles out to try and sell you some fish and grabs the rail to hold on. His parents and most of the village will probable not like the idea too much and I suspect your invitation to the local feast would be some time coming.

John
Please allow me to introduce you to a word clearly missing in your cosmos.

The word is 'Switch'. These devices allow one to switch on and off any device imaginable. And so while one is up and about, and observing a ten year-old hoving alongside to sell whatever, one uses this 'switch' thingy to switch 'off' the fence. Clever, eh? These switch thingys.
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Old 29-01-2010, 22:51   #85
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Uh... You have the numerators for the statistics, but you forgot the denominators. Politicians do this all the time. Somehow, I think I'm more likely to get hijacked if I take the boat to Somalia or the South China Sea, then I am to get carjacked living here in South Texas. If I don't take the boat to Somalia, my chances of getting hijacked there are zero.
Obviously, you're correct Bill, but the issue surely is our freedom to coexist anywhere we choose.

My attitude being; you could drop a million dollar diamond ring somewhere in my boat, and if I find it I will return it you as would expect you to do the same.

And so, should I choose to mess around near Somalia, or any other such hazardous place, I expect to be left to carry on my way unmolested by another, as all others can expect to remain unmolested by me.

"Do unto others...." being the prime directive.

And so, should any person decide to do unto me that which is designed to in some way cause me an evil, then I reserve the right to do unto him/them as they intended to do unto me.

But I will begin my dissuasion programme at the lowest end. Ergo, out with the megaphone and, 'Oi You! Come one step closer and I shall react badly!'

They come closer....Don't speak English. I start to brandish my New Zealand Maori Tiaha, the use of which I have some considerable experience. And when brandishing and keening a serious Maori Karakia at the same time, it can be a fearsome site.

Come with bad intentions within six feet of me wielding my Tiaha and you may be assured you wished you hadn't.

They come closer. My 'act' didn't work. I then pull out the flyspray can and give them a few demo-bursts of my do-it-it-yourself flame-thrower. Very impressive but only good at short range for real results; but spectacular. At least they'll know that shooting me first will be the only way past the flame-thrower.

Still they come on. Okay. These boys are going to do unto me stuff I'd rather not have done. Out comes the shotgun with the double aught. First lob over their heads. Second at their waterline. Six to go in my unplugged, take-down Ruger.

BTW: A take-down is a shotgun which can be assembled or disassembled in seconds. And the disassembled bits can be hidden very easily; especially with a sawed off barrel.

Anyone who doesn't get the message by then, then within a few seconds is going to get the next six loads coming right at them in quick succession.

Nobody. But nobody. Boards my boat without my express permission.

But if I get it all wrong and they're armed with AK47s, and shoot the **** out of me first, then I'll be in no state to complain in any event.

But I sure as hell won't give up without a fight.

The old, 'Let's see if we can't reason with these chappies,' idea is not a part of my world. One does not attempt to reason with the unreasoning.
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Old 29-01-2010, 23:10   #86
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This is the monkey you need:....
LOL You know these monkey types...they all look alike... but I think that's the same monkey !
And they work for peanuts.
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Old 30-01-2010, 01:22   #87
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LOL! Where did you get your statistics, or did you just make them up for the sake of a post? Please, sight your sources.
Here's one source I can cite:
3 Missing N. Dakota Students Found Dead - CBS News
Actually, in the US alone about 30 people per year drown in their autos. It's all online if you care to look for it. Auto drownings has a higher fatality rate than pirate murders. How many US citizens were killed by pirates last year?

Sure more people drive. But really, there isn't any evidence in support of the paranoia some people have regarding piracy.

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Your argument is nonsensical in its nature. You talk about driving habits in the same vain as pirates in waters attempting to illegally board boats. I would guess that you are being sarcastic, else you make no sense. You compare pirates boarding, a real threat in certain parts of the world that we are discussing, with taxi drivers driving habits? The level of threat is hardly comparable. I would suggest that you not make light of the dangers on the high seas. There are many here that are new and are learning by what we say. Would you want to give them a false sense of security by your levity?
You're correct. The level of threat is hardly comparable - taxis are way more dangerous. Mate, I've travelled to every country in Asia, Europe, North America and much of South America. I'm not being sarcastic.

You want practical advice from people but you don't like what you hear? I'm more afraid of lightening. The truth is that most everywhere is remarkably safe and you can find out which places aren't. You may get the odd item stolen but so what? Lock your boat - secure your belongings and get out there and enjoy yourself.
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Old 30-01-2010, 03:07   #88
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Some informative sites concerning piracy:

2009 Piracy Map (Yachts only)
Pirate Attacks on Sailing Yachts - Piracy Warnings 2009 | YachtPals.com

Noonsites Piracy page
Noonsite: Piracy

No surprise that the largest no-go area is off the coast of Somalia to the Seychelles. As of October 2009 there were 5 incidents reported worldwide including 2 yachtsman killed and 10 hostages. The piracy map also describes 2008 piracy in Venezuela and Guatamala. No doubt many incidents of boat boardings and theft are simply reported in basic crime statistics for theft.
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Old 18-03-2010, 22:31   #89
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I was thinking of the loss of their boat. A shaped charge with a thin backing plate like you said would do the job.

Of course you still have to face the local police afterwards. I guess it's still better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
I have fired Claymores with only my pack behind it then me on the other side of the pack.

Hardly a scratch on the pack. These things are very directional and the US even helpfully marked the front "This side toward enemy"
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Old 19-03-2010, 03:22   #90
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How to protect yourself

(a) move this thread to the joke and dumbass section

(a)actually get a boat and sail perhaps going a little further then the corner of your 1st world ( what a joke) marina

(c) if you really want to harm people join up as a solder of fortune , you'll get your idiot life taken away quickly. This is called cleaning the gene pool

(d) just sail be pleasant respect other cultures be aware that in certain very poor areas of the world you seem like a rich god with your insolent lifestyle and yes hunger has all through history made people take. It has actually made people take up arms and shoot the likes of you the insolent see history wear your riches lightly.

(e) your boat is not a castle and remember in a lot of countries what is private and defenible is not the same as " good Old back home". Live and learn ,if in the process you loose "stuff" then as my kids say "suck it up" remember your a god!!

(f) ps the world is not out to get Americans most of the tome it doesn't care about you ( shock horror)

god help us , electric fences, flare guns, weapons, throwing people over 80 miles offshor ( ps that's generally called murder) etc get a life actually go sailing

dave
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