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Old 09-04-2013, 17:22   #91
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Re: Arms on board?

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Originally Posted by Saltyhog View Post
Learning to identify the potential situation is the first skill taught and most often (by far) used. Situational awareness is a skill anyone can learn and practice on a daily basis. It's legal everywhere. Most victims are blissfully unaware of the situations' theater unfolding around them, until their time and thus options are used up. Those who would do you harm count on that.

The safest self defence is performed using a pen - or half a shrug , with the heavy lifting done by someone more on the expendable end of the food chain. Preferably in advance.....albeit the trick is to tread the fine lines between Prudent, Paranoid and Psychopathic - as try as yer might, yer just can't kill everyone "just in case". Well, not on a ongoing basis. too mutt.
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:23   #92
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I agree with that comment.

As an aside, I will add to the thread that while in the past this topic has always been discussed with quite a lot of emotion, and hypothetical cases, and few facts . . . . we do now actually have some significant empirical experience from the Indian ocean about what is necessary to drive off armed pirates.

We have a brit ex military friend who has been providing 'support' to superyachts thru this area.

The threat there has been 'near worst case' . . . Typically two attacking skiffs with 5 men in each with AK's. The consensus solution that has developed is 3 trained guys (who can fire aimed rounds while standing under fire) with AR's (or similar) firing 600-1000 rounds. That has proven satisfactory to drive off the pirates. Less than this had been judged to be generally insufficient (for watch keeping and multi-skiff reasons) and risky although there have been cases where less has driven off the pirates*. However, as already discussed, that sort of firepower will of course land you in hot water in most countries. around the world.
Evans. I too have a friend involved in the area. Though I haven't spoken to him this past year , he was of the opinion the average yacht or convoy of yachts are un- defendable short of using armed military patrol boats to accompany them. This view also seems to be similar to EUNAVFORs position. My friend pointed out the difficulty on establishing a protective cover, the lack of speed etc.

So broadening this debate to include what are in effect war zones has no bearing on the substance of the " guns on board" threads that crop up from time to time. Inevitably they are from " gun adherents" who in reality are making a political point " the I want to carry" argument, its not about a useful debate or even an useless debate. Its a predetermined position, which is why the " debates" either spiral off into hyperbole or spurious argument , or often ribald humour

These threads bear more in common with, why can't I carry in Walmart etc. arguments , then any real usefulness.

Dave
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:29   #93
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Re: Arms on board?

One does not bring up politics or religion in polite company. I think guns can safely be added to that list (and maybe climate change, since politics have eclipsed the science).

So, it's of course up to the mods whether to let these topics devolve into bunfights or not. I'm for anything that gets people talking, but if it goes so off-topic and the thread tone resembles a reform-school recess...

I'm thinking a folding Danforth could probably fly the furthest out of an anchor gun, due to light weight and that the flukes fold in for less drag.
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:34   #94
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Re: Arms on board?

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QED , 1776 justifies guns on a boat.

As a CFer once enlightened me "Reductio ad absurdum"

An, matey, just don't give Europeans lessons about war or guns or history. We wrote the book, and we're knee deep in our own blood because of it for millennia.

Dave
And where does the comment attempt to justify guns aboard a vessel? You obviously missed the point and dressing your retort with a bit of primary school Latin doesn't validate your argument.

The posting was directed strictly towards liberal minded arrogance rather than advocating the use or carriage of weapons aboard a private boat.

Yet I will agree with Dave on one point. Historically, Europeans do know far more about senseless mass killings than do Americans. Ask any Jew.
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:44   #95
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And where does the comment attempt to justify guns aboard a vessel? You obviously missed the point and dressing your retort with a bit of primary school Latin doesn't validate your argument.

The posting was directed strictly towards liberal minded arrogance rather than advocating the use or carriage of weapons aboard a private boat.

Yet I will agree with Dave on one point. Historically, Europeans do know far more about senseless mass killings than do Americans. Ask any Jew.
Well my comment was directly related to my argument where I pointed out that gun adherents justify things with ridiculous arguments , and hey presto a 1776 argument followed hence my QED.

" liberal minded arrogance " , well I'm not a liberal, but I do own a good few firearms , your term is something I hear from the Fox. Mis-news channel. The fact that you use it hardly marks you as a non-partisan. Any way , this side calling somebody a " liberal" raises a lot of laughs

As for Jews, agh there just at the relative end of a long line of senseless killings round here, including Catholics , Protestants, Huguenots , the crusades , the moors , Russians , Bosnians , spanish nationalists, crushed rebellions, risings, civil strife, regicide, mass avoidable famines etc etc etc etc. like I said dont lecture us on guns or their uses, we wrote the book. We also know what happens when there is too many about too.
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:47   #96
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Re: Arms on board?

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Originally Posted by rover88 View Post
And where does the comment attempt to justify guns aboard a vessel? You obviously missed the point and dressing your retort with a bit of primary school Latin doesn't validate your argument.

The posting was directed strictly towards liberal minded arrogance rather than advocating the use or carriage of weapons aboard a private boat.

Yet I will agree with Dave on one point. Historically, Europeans do know far more about senseless mass killings than do Americans. Ask any Jew.
or american indian,one of the primary reason's for bearing arm's in 1776 tru to the 1880's
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:54   #97
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Re: Arms on board?

Let's start a pool on when the thread will get killed. I'm picking... page 9.
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Old 09-04-2013, 17:58   #98
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As they say elsewhere inb404 !! Bump


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Old 09-04-2013, 18:27   #99
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Re: Arms on board?

Irony:

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If you want guns onboard, sail around the US, thanks, leave the rest of the world to people with a little bit more grey matter between their ears. ........

.......The reason these debates are facetious is that advocates aren't interested in a reasonable debate. .....
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Old 09-04-2013, 18:28   #100
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Re: Arms on board?

I'd like the discussion related to the OP's original posting regarding specific procedures required of one wishing to have guns onboard to continue... Minus all the postings which are politically motivated by the usual suspects who tend to pile on in order to get the thread shut down.

The OP's intension was to ask a legitimate question of those who have firearms onboard regarding procedures, it was not to start a political fight. I'd like to see one of the moderators remove the unrelated postings and keep the thread active so that the OP can obtain the answers requested.

The last time I checked, it is still legal to have firearms onboard a vessel while in US waters, so the OP is asking a very Legitimate question of seasoned cruisers in his local area.
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Old 09-04-2013, 18:34   #101
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Re: Arms on board?

See a page count will not be accurate - cause I have threads set to 10 posts per page - others have them longer, I am afraid it will have to be a post count. I reckon post 115 should see it done. :-)
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Old 09-04-2013, 18:39   #102
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pirate Re: Arms on board?

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is there any specific requirements for having weapons on board a boat? I own a 7.62x54 Mosin bolt action sniper rifle, moss berg 500 pump tactical, 45 cal colt 1991 commander, a couple of machetes, knives, and one vintage katana (a gift from a very close friend. its a real one, but I use it for ornamental purposes. its not a deal breaker, but I'd just like to know what general opinion about that sort of thing is
Nope... there is no specific requirement to have a gun on board... its a personal choice... but once you leave your licenced area/country be aware that things will get awkward with the relevant authorities in any countrys you may chose to visit...
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Old 09-04-2013, 18:40   #103
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Re: Arms on board?

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or american indian,one of the primary reason's for bearing arm's in 1776 tru to the 1880's
thank you... They know about it, they chose to let it "lie" in a deep dark corner of their historical memories..
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Old 09-04-2013, 18:46   #104
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Re: Arms on board?

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I don't know , but they seem to have the only operational space craft !! There tractors arnt too bad an all !!

Dave
We are saving up for Mars and catching meteors,near earth travel has gotton redundent to us..yawnnn!!lol
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Old 09-04-2013, 20:10   #105
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Re: Arms on board?

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The posting was directed strictly towards liberal minded arrogance rather than advocating the use or carriage of weapons aboard a private boat.

Yet I will agree with Dave on one point. Historically, Europeans do know far more about senseless mass killings than do Americans. Ask any Jew.
Hold your calls people, we have a winner. Thread has been officially Godwinned, which is the traditional end, the 'absurdum' that we all 'ad' towards.

Please move in an orderly fashion towards the exits.
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