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Old 08-01-2014, 07:29   #31
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Beyond that (for cruising sailors) it is a matter of personal preferences and priorities.
Isn't that what all these come down to (including all topics with the word blue tossed in). You chose the equipment that is needed based on where, when, and how you plan to be sailing?
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:00   #32
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

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I will comment that the offshore racing community pretty strongly believes that storm sails should be and are a required safety item.

Regarding Skip novak's comments . . .
I agree with you and the racing rules. Racers dont want to hove to, plus they have a crew where 65 year old retirees Arthur and Martha are not required to dance on the fore deck in 40+ knots.

Skip Novak runs a charter boat to the Antarctic Peninsula. If I was doing that I would have a full compliment of teeny-weeny, itsy-bitsy, thick as buggery, storm sails

Re watermakers: They are an absolute necessity.... Its just I dont own one. woe is me!

Lol
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:09   #33
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

Actually to set a storm jib you dont need dance in the foredeck in 40 knts, a previous poster explain it very well, storm jib in the bag, hanked in the stay, and ready to be hoisted , but anyway ripping in pieces a genoa and for sure you need to dance in the foredeck to clear the mess or make a sailchange, or just run under barepoles, or with the main and engine...
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Old 08-01-2014, 15:48   #34
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

Last week, I used the hank-on storm jib for the first time, with the triple-reefed main. The wind was blowing Beaufort 7-8 with some gusts at 9, according to the nearest signal station. I did it because I wanted to sail to windward, partly to go back home and partly as an experiment.

The experiment was very conclusive: the sail area was perfect for the conditions and we were sailing faster (reaching shelter earlier) than a bigger boat that carried only a deeply furled genoa.

Now, I am making plans for a storm trysail, to be set in case of stronger winds if I'm caught at sea off a lee shore (things happen) or in case of a failure in the mainsail or the boom/gooseneck.

Alain
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Old 08-01-2014, 16:37   #35
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

As some forumers said, the storm jib is not an alternative to genoa of any kind (small, large, furled or not..) Storm jib is closer to the mast and has a much different impact on the boat than the genoa in every point of sail.
In heavy head wind on a mono even a tiny piece of genoa left pull the head of the boat towards the wind and the boat is heeled excesively. (In a cat it's less of an issue)
Rgeradless whether I sail mono or cat and the latitude, in any offshore passage I'd like to have a furling storm sail..
Water maker is a safety gear for me, carrying too much water in a cat not only make the cat sluggish but also unsafe...And there is nothing more rewarding than a hot shower when sailing offshore

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Old 08-01-2014, 17:29   #36
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

Roller furler and a detachable Solent stay which we use for hank on sails. Yes we have a storm Jib and when hoisted at the dock it looked like a Hobie 16 headsail. LOL

But sailing from NZ to Tonga and being caught up in the Queen's Birthday storm a number of years ago the tiny little storm jib really saved our butts! Anything bigger would have been too much.

Anyone planning an offshore trip it's something I highly recommend.

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Old 08-01-2014, 17:55   #37
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

I'd rather have storm sails than worry. As to your original question - I don't like to operate a jib partly furled. You can certainly do it but the uneven loads are tough on it and in a big blow, it might yield.

As the others have noted, it depends on what your plans are, how big is the boat, how is it rigged etc. A few years ago we attended Pardey's lecture at a boat show on Storm Tactics. They have a video, brochure, and book by the same name. There is a lot of very good advice relative to various boat and rig types here. I've raced for many years and I found their advice to cruisers exceptional.

We are 58 feet, 36 tons, 80 ft mast, ketch with cutter staysail, modified full keel, roller furl in-masts, roller furl jib and roller furl staysail. I also have a storm trisail on a a separate track and a spare 'chicken-jib'. With our rig I have many options. One of the best is fore-reaching. (read the book). I explored buying a drogue. Series drogue for us is 1" line at the boat, 300 feet of 180 drogues not including the pennant. A para-drogue is 25 feet diameter. Consider retrieving these after the storm. Now thin about where to store this big wet mess. Neither of these is the least bit practical for us but may work out fine for a smaller vessel. (Drogues also discussed the book). I know that our vessel was at sea in Hurricane Grace by the write-up in a sail magazine. Three on board; average age 68, in the storm for three days. They eventually sailed off downwind after engine troubles and did well. Hove to works well too. My advice - get the book.
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Old 08-01-2014, 18:18   #38
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
This has been discussed.

I think we all agree that, No, you don't need storm sails. You can get across oceans without them.

But a different question: is it better or more prudent to carry storm sails?

Many (but not all) here would say yes for at least a storm jib. Some (but fewer) would say yes for a trisail.

It basically comes down to whether you want/prefer to have options or not. Personally I like having options, and I do carry and have used both storm jib and trisail.
+1. Have and not need, rather than need and not have....
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Old 08-01-2014, 20:25   #39
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

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+1. Have and not need, rather than need and not have....
No worries, and I respect your decision. But also everyone read back over all the posts in this thread of the number of people with storm sails that have only used them once or nonce... So in a blow they are sticking up a sail, maybe at night, they havent used much, if at all, before. Instead of a sail they use every time they are out.

I know where people are coming from, inner forestays and permanently hanked on storm jibs, thats fine to say.... However 90% of boats dont have that when the do a circ or long passages tradewinds. I dont know too many production boats, and fewer cats with them, so do we expect 90% of boats to reconfigure?

Lets look at the basic budgetary point of do i go now or wait till i die at my desk at work... The cost of innerforestay, storm jib, trisail and mast track would be the equivalent of that watermaker some think is imperative, or the SSB, multiple EPIRBs, sat phone or bigger battery bank and freezer. Safety is important, but is it the be all and end all when the alternative is never going cruising at all?

Each to their own and I dont criticise anyones decision of how to go. But I do criticise those who never go


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Old 08-01-2014, 20:39   #40
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

Cutter rigged Westsail 42 with trysail track and sail to fit. Triple reefed main and staysail. Most of the time these work great! Heaved to in a hurricane between Grand Cayman and Belize and except for the wind noise you had to go on deck to see just how bad it was most of the time. Just glad I have all the gear I think I need. IMHO...
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Old 08-01-2014, 20:42   #41
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I think the best thing when you have a furling headsail is a removeable inner forestay and hank on jib. With high modulus line you don't even need to have wire baging against the mast.
Trysail on separate track- again, if sail is bagged right and has been set for practice (lines measured and marked) it almost is easier to deploy this than tie in mainsail reefs.

I like the idea of saving the expensive big sails from extreme conditions. It would drive me nuts to blow out the upper third of my mainsail in a storm as opposed to using a dedicated much heavier cloth trysail and storm jib. Same with the leech of a furling jib. The big reason to do it is the weight of cloth and stitching is so much greater than normal sails. Would set like a board in light winds, but come into their own in the heavy stuff.
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Old 08-01-2014, 20:48   #42
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

The reefable trysail /storm jib has another somewhat counter intuitive use.

I fly both foresails in light air. Cutter rig!

Every knot matters.
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Old 08-01-2014, 20:55   #43
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

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Heaved to in a hurricane between Grand Cayman and Belize
Using which sail(s)?
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Old 08-01-2014, 23:34   #44
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

I have had 3 cruising boats. The first 2 came with trysail and storm jib. I loved the storm jibs and hated the trysail. The first boat (26 foot) I played a little with the trysail but when I really needed less sail area close hauled for 6 days against the trades with a double reefed main and storm jib, I knew that if I set the trysail, I would loose pointing ability , and not make Hilo on the big Island. The trysail later worked wonders for reducing roll in a nasty anchorage. That was the only use I got out of that sail. I would much rather have had a 3rd reef for the main. The next boat (37 foot) came with a trysail on its own track. I set out from Virgin Gorda to St Martin. I had made the trip before. I didnt have a radio at the time, so I didnt check the weather(dumb of me) and a large front came through in the night and I got a complete butt whipping. Down to trysail and storm jib. The trysail would not allow me to tack the boat. If I had been trying to beat off of a lee shore, I would have been SOL. I had to start the engine to get the boat to tack. The trysail set like a bag and sailed like one. I arrived in St Martin so tired that I motored in with the trysail and storm jib still set. The front had passed, but there were boats sunk in the harbor and several more on the beach. Again I would much rather have had a 3rd reef. Next boat 44 foot cutter. Came with main,#1,#2 genoas. I added a non overlapping staysail and when I needed a new main I had it cut with 3 reefs. I never used the 3rd reef, but I knew that if I had to go to weather in really bad conditions, I could do it. If you only want a sail to heave too, then a trysail seems fine, but if you want to make good to weather in bad conditions, then I feel that a deeply reefed main will give you better pointing ability. Any barge will sail down wind and any bag of a sail will sail down wind. It is only when you have to go upwind in bad conditions that everything has to be as good as you can make it. Just my 2 cents worth. ______Grant.
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Old 09-01-2014, 02:07   #45
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Re: Are Storm sails needed?

Are Storm sails needed?

Only in storms
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