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Old 25-08-2012, 19:40   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver
CE Certifications nor ISO Standards do not consern 34yrs old boats..
If you wish to import it into the EU, then it's does not matter when it was built. All imports irrespective oh age must be CE certified.

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Old 25-08-2012, 21:33   #62
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Lifelines have saved my butt more times than I care to count. When I went for the sea trial on my current boat the lifelines at the bow were rigged to the deck instead of the bow pulpit. Made for a nice setting deck sweeper genoa but left a void that was too easy to go through. Never guess how I discovered that. First thing I did after the sale was complete was rerig the life lines to the pulpit.

Recently hauled the boat and stripped all the hardware including pulpits and lifelines. Made me damned nervous everytime I had to go on the side decks and downright scared when workers were on board. It was a big relief when the painting was pau and I could rerig the pulpits and life lines. Voila, no more problems moving about on the boat.

My jacklines run from bow to stern down each side. Yes I can go overboard with then this way but I can go from from stern to bow without having to unhook. I have a padeye on the cockpit sole with a tether that I hang in the companionway when I'm below. Clip on before I put a foot on the step to climb on deck. Have a double hook on the tether to my life vest/harness so I can hook into the jacklines before I disconnect from the cockpit tether when going forward. Too many sailors have been lost when they either unhooked because it was inconvenient to be hooked on to move around or didn't hook on when coming on deck from below.

I'd rather be dragged by the boat rather than waving at it as it sails away. Need to rig a trip line to the self steering vane so I can round the boat up If I'm being dragged off the stern. On my sail to Hawaii would have been dragged all the way till I ran up on the Big Island, the winds were so steady.
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Old 25-08-2012, 23:25   #63
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Unless you wish to import the boat into the EU, otherwise CE certification is not required. as a non EU tax resident you have 18 months before such importation must take place.
There's unless in rare cases. IMCI - International Marine Certification Institute - The Recreational Craft Directive (RCD)
If similar boat model has ever been used in the past (before 1998) in the EU or in any territory of the member countries CE cert is not reqiured. If this doesn't fit you can import it as not finished boat and finish it in the E U..
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Old 25-08-2012, 23:29   #64
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If you wish to import it into the EU, then it's does not matter when it was built. All imports irrespective oh age must be CE certified.

Dave
And in that case all you need is self written document.. Read the directive!
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Old 26-08-2012, 03:32   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

And in that case all you need is self written document.. Read the directive!
Utterly wrong. Unless you build it yourself , in which case no CE marking is required, the only category you can self certify is category D still water canals vessels.( and there are caveats) . For all others you must use a notifying body. You can either get pre construction certification ( ir for series builders) or post certification assessment and certification. In all cases depending on the engine power you made need emissions testing and sound bypass measurement.

I have read the directives and I been involved in it. Your comments are entirely misleading and wrong.

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Old 26-08-2012, 03:36   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

There's unless in rare cases. IMCI - International Marine Certification Institute - The Recreational Craft Directive (RCD)
If similar boat model has ever been used in the past (before 1998) in the EU or in any territory of the member countries CE cert is not reqiured. If this doesn't fit you can import it as not finished boat and finish it in the E U..
As I said " import". If you import a part finished boat, the whole boat must be subject to a post construction assessment process, which for cat A,B or C must use a notifying body. , ( ie a standards house )

For the life of the vessel. The onus on correct CE marking and the creation of the accompanying technical file, rests with the " importer" irrespective of the actual owner.

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Old 26-08-2012, 04:12   #67
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

To other readers:

Article 1(3)
3. The following shall be excluded from the
scope of this Directive:
Paragraph 3
contains a list of craft which are
excluded from the scope of the directive.
Whilst it is for the manufacturer to decide
whether or not a boat is covered by the directive,
advice may be sought from the Member
State administration, in order, perhaps, to
give greater validity to the decision. The
Commission’s comments to the directive may
be used for guidance. If a Member State
administration is, finally, still unsure, even
after consultation with a notified body, then
advice may be sought from the Commission.
In this case, advice would be sought on a
wider basis using the services of the standing
committee referred to in Article 6 of the directive
or other groups created under the directive.
There is no provision for this information to
be notified to the Commission or for the
Commission to keep a list of excluded craft.

(a) craft intended solely for racing, including
rowing racing boats and training rowing
boats labelled as such by the manufacturer;
The exclusion in (a) concerns craft intended
solely for racing and designated as such by
their builder. These include rowing racing
boats and boats intended for rowing training
that are designed exclusively for racing. Some
racing boats are by their very design so extreme
in their racing profile that they could in
no way be examined against the requirements
of the directive. It is these designs for which this
exclusion was drafted. In the remaining majority
of craft, examination against the requirements
of the directive could be feasible. That
said, a manufacturer who decides, as it is his
decision, to label the boat ‘intended solely for
racing’ is demonstrating the intended prime
purpose of the boat to compete adequately
with other boats (perhaps employing minimalist
internal fittings). Such a labelling should be
clearly visible when affixed to the boat. If, in the
future, this boat is placed on the EEA market
not as a racing boat, perhaps because the design
is no longer competitive, the boat then
falls under the requirements of the directive as
this would constitute the ‘first placing on the
market’ as a recreational craft.
(b) canoes and kayaks, gondolas and pedalos;
The exclusions in (b) concern types of watercraft,
which are by nature incompatible with some of
the essential requirements but whose inclusion
in the directive might be debatable. Canoes and
kayaks, gondolas and pedalos are considered to
be craft designed to be propelled by human
power excluding rowing. Rowing is considered
to be the use of more than one oar. If canoes are
so designed and constructed that they can be fitted
with an engine and placed on the market as
such, they are covered by the directive.
(c) sailing surfboards;
The exclusion in (c) concerns craft whose
design is incompatible with the essential
requirements of the directive.
(d) powered surfboards, personal watercraft
and other similar powered craft;
The exclusion in (d) is intended to exclude
personal watercraft being craft which use an
Recreational craft directive and comments to the directive combined
10
internal combustion engine powering a water
jet pump as their primary source of propulsion
and which are designed to be operated
by a person or persons sitting, standing or
kneeling on rather than within the confines of
their hull.
Powered surfboards or similar powered craft
are considered to be craft carrying no more
than two persons sitting, standing or kneeling
on the craft’s hull and fitted with flotation and
fail-safe controls.
Similar craft meeting these considerations are
also considered to lie outside the scope of the
directive.
(e) original, and individual replicas of, historical
craft designed before 1950, built predominantly
with the original materials
and labelled as such by the manufacturer;
The exclusion in (e) is intended to exclude
from the scope of the directive craft designed
before 1950. In addition, this exclusion is also
intended to exclude craft and/or types or
classes of craft which were designed or developed
before 1950 and which are individually
constructed predominantly but not exclusively
using the original materials. Builders of
historical craft are able to build the same
authentic bygone design, one boat after
another. These boats are still unique and individual,
when built using methods and materials
consistent with the original design, and
retain their aesthetic charm and characteristics.
In this respect, ‘predominantly with the
original materials’ means using the original
materials for both the hull and the deck, but
allowing contemporary use of materials, for
example plywood instead of solid timber,
laminated frames, modern adhesives, paints,
sealant and fastenings. Series production by
means of moulds (e.g. GRP production) shall
not be possible in these cases.
It is noted that some classes of boat that were
designed before 1950 which were originally
made exclusively of wood are now produced
of modern plastics. These contemporary
constructions are considered to fall within the
scope of the directive as the criteria regarding
‘predominantly with the original materials’ is
not fulfilled.
NB:
All Member States have individual boat designs
that are peculiar to that State or region thereof,
for example ‘pattini’ in Italy or ‘treehandiri’ in
Greece. These boats are generally:
— of a design pre-dating 1950,
— built in specialist yards of original materials.
Of the two points above, the first takes
predominance. The Member State must be
satisfied that such an exclusion from the
directive would not give carte blanche for
series production.
(f) experimental craft, provided that they are
not subsequently placed on the Community
market;
The exclusion in (f) concerns experimental
craft. Such craft may be placed on the EEA
market only if their design and construction
are subsequently certified in conformity with
the directive.
(g) craft built for own use, provided that they
are not subsequently placed on the
Community market during a period of
five years;
The exclusion in (g) concerns craft built by their
future user, provided that they are not placed
on the EEA market within five years of being put
into service. This does not preclude the subcontracting,
by the builder, of specialists in certain
aspects of the fitting-out of the boat, for
example electrical or electronic engineers.
A kit boat bought by its end-user, from the kit
boat manufacturer, not completed in accordance
with the kit boat manufacturer’s
instructions (i.e. modified (
2)) but to the
‘desires’ of the end-user is considered to be a
‘boat built for own use’.
If, for whatever reason, a boat built for own
use is intended to be placed on the Commu-

11
Chapter 1: Scope, placing on the market
(
2) It is considered that these modifications relate to
compliance with the directive’s essential safety
requirements and not features outside the scope
of Annex I.

nity market, whether completed or partly
completed, within the five-year period, then
certification by a person or persons fulfilling
the role of manufacturer would be required in
a similar manner to (f) above. These persons
would take the responsibility for the appraisal
of the design, construction and any necessary
modification of the boat. This appraisal, with
regard to compliance with essential requirements
of the directive, involves the procedures
necessary for conformity assessment.
NB:
A member of the general public building his
own boat (in his garage or garden, for
example) from materials bought on the open
market is deemed to be ‘building a boat for
his own use’. This boat lies outside the scope
of the directive and does not require compliance
with the essential requirements and thus
CE marking. If, for whatever reason, this situation
changes, then the provisions detailed
above would be seen to apply.
It should be made clear that a private person
who enters into a contractual arrangement
with a professional company, yard or individual
constructor to build a one-off boat
(bespoke) is deemed to have entered into an
arrangement where there will be a transfer of
ownership. Such a boat is deemed to fall
under the directive and will have to comply
with the essential requirements of the directive
and applicable conformity assessment
procedures. Reference is made to text
expanding Article 4.
Boats built for own use have the concept that
a person is building his own boat and not
having it built by others.
(h) craft specifically intended to be crewed
and to carry passengers for commercial
purposes, without prejudice to paragraph
2, in particular those defined in Directive
82/714/EEC of 4 October 1982 laying
down technical requirements for inland
waterway vessels, regardless of the
number of passengers;
The exclusion in (h) concerns craft specifically
intended to be crewed and to carry passengers
for commercial transport purposes. This
means that recreational craft, which are
crewed and are used for sports and/or leisure
purposes, are not excluded.
NB:
Council Directive 82/714/EEC of 4 October
1982, which lays down technical requirements
for inland waterway vessels, excludes
recreational craft from its scope but does not
define them. However, it does exclude and
define passenger boats as follows:
Passenger boat’ means any vessel built and
fitted out to carry more than 12 passengers.
As a result of this definition, the phrase
‘regardless of the number of passengers’ had
to be added to Directive 94/25/EC.

(i) submersibles;
(j) air cushion vehicles;
(k) hydrofoils.
The above three exclusions lie outside the
scope of the directive, as their physical characteristics
are not consistent with the essential
requirements.
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Old 26-08-2012, 04:16   #68
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

More:
(vi) Importer
The term ‘importer’ is not used explicitly in
the directive. However, it is a term that should
be defined to clarify the exact meaning and
to avoid confusion with the authorised representative
as these are frequently thought to
be interchangeable.
The importer is the person who places on the
EEA market and puts into service the product
that is covered by the directive and imported
from a third country.
Unlike the authorised representative, the
importer has no preferential relationship with
the manufacturer in the third country.
Comment
An owner who buys a boat in a third country
(whether new or second-hand) and sails to
EEA territory, or returns an existing boat to
EEA territory, is considered to be an importer,
except if the boat had been placed on the
Community market or put into service within
the Community before 16 June 1998. At the
time of putting into service, the provisions of
the directive become applicable under the
Recreational craft directive and comments to the directive combined
16
heading ‘second-hand boat imported from a
third country’. The only exemption is that the
boat was designed before 1950. It should be
mentioned that any Member State usage or
navigation requirements would, additionally,
be applicable.
Article 4(1)
1. Member States shall not prohibit, restrict or
impede the placing on the market and putting
into service in their territory of the products
referred to in Article 1(1) bearing the CE
marking referred to in Annex IV, which indicates
their conformity with all provisions of
this Directive, including the conformity procedures
set out in Chapter II.
Article 4(2)
2. Member States shall not prohibit, restrict or
impede the placing on the market of partly
completed boats where the builder or his
authorised representative established in the
Community or the person responsible for the
placing on the market declares, in accordance
with Annex IIIA, that they are intended to be
completed by others.
Article 4(3)
3 Member States shall not prohibit, restrict or
impede the placing on the market and putting
into service of components referred to in Annex
II and bearing the CE marking referred to in Annex
IV which indicates their conformity with the
relevant essential requirements where these
components are intended to be incorporated
into recreational craft, in accordance with the
declaration, referred to in Annex IIIb, of the
manufacturer, his authorised representative established
in the Community or, in the case of
imports from a third country, of any person who
places those components on the Community
market.
Paragraphs 2 and 3
provide for free movement:
— for partly completed boats,
— for components.
Partly completed boats are not given the CE
marking since by definition they cannot be in
conformity with all of the relevant essential requirements
of the directive but are the subject
of a declaration by the builder (Annex IIIa).
With regard to boats that are designed to be
operated in conjunction with an outboard motor
or have the provision to be fitted with such
a unit, reference is made to the requirements
for the declaration of conformity of Annex XV.
Components as referred to in Annex II are
given the CE marking and are also the
subject of a declaration of conformity (Annex
XV) by the component manufacturer. If
they are to be incorporated into recreational
craft, they are the subject of an

Annex IIIb declaration.
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Old 26-08-2012, 04:18   #69
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

More:
Existing boats
Queries have been raised by several Member
States, industry and users relating to the
status of existing boats, most especially in
relation to third countries. In amplification of
the above, the following guidance is additionally
provided on the question of the applicability
of the directive.
— Where a boat had been constructed, placed on
the market or put into service in the present EEA
Member States prior to full application of the
directive, then the requirements of the directive
do not apply if the boat is brought back into the
EEA after 16 June 1998. For the purposes of this
section, the ‘EEA’ is considered to include not
only ‘EEA’ States but also their overseas territories
and dependencies to which the EC Treaty applies
(reference Article 299 of the Treaty). These territories
are listed in the Treaty.
— The applicability of the directive is not
dependent on where the boat was on 16 June
1998, but where it had been previously.
— In very broad terms, regarding used boats from
third countries, the directive only applies to
boats built outside the EEA which have never
been sold or used in the EEA before.
Given the above, the requirements of the directive
may not apply if an owner is ‘returning an
existing boat to the EEA’. However, the directive’s
requirements would apply to a boat in the
case of ‘the placing on the market and/or putting
an existing boat into service for the first
time in the EEA’. This approach was outlined to
all parties in the various committees during
drafting, and is consistent with other new approach
directives and Commission documents.
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Old 26-08-2012, 04:20   #70
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Sorry none of that has any relevance in relation to importing older boats.

They must be made to comply , end of story and this means a conventional CE post assessment certification process. Under virtually no conditions can you self affix a CE plate. But of course there are dodgy opportunists telling people that all over he place.

As I said, boats built pre 1998 that are subsequently imported in the EU require the proper CE process to be applied. It's one of the reasons few US boats are imported into Europe

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Old 26-08-2012, 04:28   #71
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

More:
Partly completed boats that are brought into
the EEA for completion
— Boats that are partly completed when brought
into the EEA but not placed on the EEA market,
specifically destined for completion by another
party, who will be regarded as the manufacturer,
will not be required to comply with the applicable
requirements of the directive at the time of entry
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Old 26-08-2012, 04:31   #72
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

So there are some exemptions.. just be sure you won't place the boat "on the market" and it's possible to find a way around..
BR Teddy
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Old 26-08-2012, 04:40   #73
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
More:
Partly completed boats that are brought into
the EEA for completion
Boats that are partly completed when brought
into the EEA but not placed on the EEA market,
specifically destined for completion by another
party, who will be regarded as the manufacturer,
will not be required to comply with the applicable

requirements of the directive at the time of entry
and what happens when you want to operate the vessel
just asking
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:11   #74
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

The partly completed concept, was to cope with Kit boats, and its was seen as a business to business trade. Hence this route is not a way to get around the directive for existing boats. Its clear that once the boat is placed on the EEA market * and that term in essence mean in normal use) then it must be Ce certified.

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Old 26-08-2012, 09:01   #75
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

The term "placed in to market" means it for sale for consumer. If someone imports or builds, whatever, for personal use means it's not " placed into market" and not under the CE legislation. If you go and ask officials they say opposite becouse it's safer for them. What's not mentioned is the fact that there' s not a single boat build before 1994 that meets the ISO standards in A B or C categories and therefore they are almost impossible to make ISOcompliant. Some of the requirements are so much from a different universe what was build before.
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