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Old 24-08-2012, 10:15   #46
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
Pete

Boats that have marine insurance companies will require a Survey every 3-5 years. The surveyor will require life lines to be replaced if they show signs of rust or if they are more than 7 years old. Until you replace them the insurance company will not insure you.

If you are using 24 year old life lines, you must be using your home owners insurance that does not require surveys. But if you look at the fine print in your policy, if something happens and it was the fault of negligence, such as not replacing life lines, you many not be cover in the event of a claim.
I think all the boats I've purchased have been over 7 years old and never has a surveyor or ins company specified the lifelines to be replaced.... just sayin...
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Old 24-08-2012, 10:37   #47
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Re: Are deck lifelines a nearly complete waste?

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But there are those who argue that jacklines have their risks too, especially if sailing solo -- you can end up being dragged behind your boat, possibly with an injury like broken ribs.

The guy whose slip is next to mine was about to get caught in what turned out to be a bad storm. He was reefing his mainsail when the first wall of wind hit the boat. He was knocked off the cabin top.

He had an offshore pfd on, and a tether. He had wrapped the tether around the mast, but it still stretched so much that he went through the lifelines almost to his waist before the tether stopped him. If he'd used his tether on a jackline he would have been off the boat ...
Quite honestly Raku there are those that will argue about anything, anyone questioning the usefulness of life lines should remove theirs and try the difference, it's fun, they will tend to walk from bow to stern amidships not wanting to venture to the boats sides.

I had the delight of sailing a circa 1925 8 metre boat that was NEVER fitted with lifelines, it sharpens the skills heaps.

Best height is above the back of your knees any less and you buckle, many classic yachts in Australia are fitted with SS Rails with top and mid rail in 25mm tubing.

Cheers Frank
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Old 24-08-2012, 10:47   #48
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

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I've always wondered why builders don't glass in pockets to the inner side of the hull extending down below decks to accept longer, more substantial stanchions. I guess one could retrofit this concept, but it would be a pain...
Yes me too, some people would say in case of a problem this could damage your hull much more though ...
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Old 24-08-2012, 10:54   #49
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

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Yes me too, some people would say in case of a problem this could damage your hull much more though ...
As well as be a pocket for salt and dirt to collect = corrosion, better the rail/staunchion be capable of breaking away for the good reason you suggested.
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Old 24-08-2012, 11:10   #50
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I fell off the high side beating in 35 knots. I was seated and falling backwards. Lifelines kept me on board (yes, I should have been tethered)
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Old 24-08-2012, 12:57   #51
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

I don't really need to respond to this because most of the points have already been expressed. I've had the lifelines removed from my boat while its been in my yard for many years. Walking on the side decks without them is a bit scary. No visual clues and nothing to adjust my balance a bit (an issue with age). Being 12 to 15 feet above solid ground instead of 5 feet above water makes you think about it a bit too. They truly are not sturdy enough to stop you from going over the side with a big wave but they'll give you something to grab hold of at the last minute and when they break (if they do) will let folks know below decks that something terrible is happening on deck.
Since early Navy days 50 years ago I've been told not to lean on the lifelines. That lesson has stuck. I don't tie things to the top line unless its washing that needs to dry. Definitely don't tie fenders except maybe at the base.
They are necessary on my boat.
kind regards,
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Old 25-08-2012, 08:06   #52
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

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Yes me too, some people would say in case of a problem this could damage your hull much more though ...
As i mentioned in post #36,some builders did instal their stanchions this way and they were on very light boats so not massivly done,however the tubing used for stanchions is very thin walled and will fold over where they enter the deck if over stressed and be easily and inexpensivly replaced. We have several O30s and an O40 in the local racing fleet and all look fine and are about 25 yrs old, certainly much better than the typical boats where the bases work, the 4 x 1/4" bolt holes leak, the inboard 2 are often through the edge of the balsa core, the core rots out,the stanchion base starts to crush into the deck, an all around bad scene, ive repaired many like this from a lot of different builders.

Steve.
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Old 25-08-2012, 08:17   #53
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

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As well as be a pocket for salt and dirt to collect = corrosion, better the rail/staunchion be capable of breaking away for the good reason you suggested.
I dont think corrosion would be any more of a problem than with the typical bases that the stanchion sits in with the little set screw to hold it in,they are probably 3" deep and hold salt and dirt too. It would be easy to run a small filet of silicone around the stanchion to deck interface to keep water out. Our local guys remove the stanchions for the winter and plug the sockets to keep water out so you dont get freeze damage.

Steve.
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Old 25-08-2012, 08:18   #54
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

There are other ways without being obtrusive to the interior, on my last cat i glassed onto the dech a slightly larger stainless plate that was drilled and tapped to match the staunchion base, did same for winches.

There is NO exposure to core material, no leaks and no area where water pools because the base is on a higher pad.

Cheers Frank
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Old 25-08-2012, 10:03   #55
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Can we go back to the CE certification for just a moment? I've got a 34 year old, backyard-built, multihull. I tried to look up the details for the requirements, just in case I should ever visit Europe (not highly likely, at this rate). Can someone direct me to a listing of the details? I found lots of folks who would produce the certifications for a Boat Buck. I expect that more and more places will start requiring visiting boats to conform to local standards, and I'd like to have a better picture of the situation to help decide where not to cruise.
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Old 25-08-2012, 10:09   #56
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

CE cert should only concern an insurer, if you travel with your boat insured from home then nothing should change for you.

Not sure i'm understanding your concern?
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Old 25-08-2012, 10:52   #57
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

For CE certification you need to conform to ISO 15085. To properly read that standard you will need to find a library or purchase from any one a number of organizations. Or Google "ISO 15085 small craft" and then download it from any one of the numerous less reputable sources (not linked for that reason, you'll have to find your own).

Whether you have to conform to 15085 while sailing in those waters (now, or in the future) is another question entirely and I'll leave that to someone else.
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Old 25-08-2012, 11:07   #58
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

CE Certifications nor ISO Standards do not consern 34yrs old boats..
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Old 25-08-2012, 11:22   #59
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Re: Are Deck Lifelines a Nearly Complete Waste?

Deck safety gear standards are in ISO 12401.. In addition to prev mentioned 15085.
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Old 25-08-2012, 19:39   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M
Can we go back to the CE certification for just a moment? I've got a 34 year old, backyard-built, multihull. I tried to look up the details for the requirements, just in case I should ever visit Europe (not highly likely, at this rate). Can someone direct me to a listing of the details? I found lots of folks who would produce the certifications for a Boat Buck. I expect that more and more places will start requiring visiting boats to conform to local standards, and I'd like to have a better picture of the situation to help decide where not to cruise.
Unless you wish to import the boat into the EU, otherwise CE certification is not required. as a non EU tax resident you have 18 months before such importation must take place.

Dave
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