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Old 07-10-2010, 11:44   #16
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On multiple day or week log voyages, do people using these remedies use them the entire time, or just for the start?
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:12   #17
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What's your experience been with it and what other effective ways do you deal with motion sickness?
I don't get sea sick but I have had a lot of people on board who do. The best approach seems to be to not eat spicy or gaseous foods the day before, ginger snaps or crackers while on board, staying outside and watching the horizon, keeping busy, and time. The most effective medicine I have heard about is scopolamine, but not necessarily the whole patch - people have found cutting them down to size seems to have more beneficial than detrimental effects.

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Old 07-10-2010, 12:28   #18
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Meclizine all the way - the active ingredient in Bonine and the non-drowsy Dramamine.

I take it the night before heading out on the boat and it's good for 24 hours. Works wonders for me.

I will get queasy on a bobbing boat after a little while, although I can be fine for short trips.

A couple years ago I was going out on an ocean fishing trip off Key Largo. I knew we were going several miles out on a big diesel-powered boat, so I took the Bonine. That boat was rocking all over the place, up and down and all around, the mate was smoking a stinky cheroot, there were diesel fumes, and the stink of the bait. Without that Bonine, I would have been ill to the point of incapacitation. Instead, I was laughing and having a good time and ate a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch while watching them haul in and cut up fish.

I pretty much don't go out without taking the meclizine ahead of time, unless I know it's going to be just a short trip or on protected, flat waters. If it's an all-day sail out in the main part of the Bay, where we can get some pretty good chop, then yeah, I'll definitely take my Bonine or non-drowsy Dramamine ahead of time.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:46   #19
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The most effective medicine I have heard about is scopolamine, but not necessarily the whole patch - people have found cutting them down to size seems to have more beneficial than detrimental effects.
I've been told that it's a bad idea to cut the scopolamine patch. If you cut it, the scop can leak out and actually increase your dosage dramatically. Also, You are more likely to get it on your fingers, and in your eyes, causing uncontrollable pupil dilation. With the patch, you want to use it for a few days, then stop, or at least take a break. Excess dosage or prolonged use can actually cause hallucination and symptoms of psychosis.

All this info came from a doctor with sea experience, so I assume it's reasonably accurate.

On my boat at least, any of these medications are used for a few days, then are no longer necessary. On our last big trip it seemed that two of the crew who were using the patch had a minor seasickness relapse when they stopped wearing it after several days. At least one of them went back on the patch for a while. This is all so subjective, and varies dramatically from person to person.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:57   #20
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I'm fairly prone to sea sickness. I've tried the scapolomine patch, meclazine, Stugeron and the wrist things.

The wrist pressure things had no positive affect for me. I got sick using them in mild conditions.

Stugeron, Meclazine and the patch all seemed to offer similar relief in moderate conditions. All make me drowsy. The patch had additional side affects I did not like so I stopped using it. I also had problems forgetting to replace the patch at the right time.

Of meclazine and stugeron, meclazine is cheaper and easier to get. My feeling is that stugeron may work better in rougher conditions, but I don't have sufficient experience to validate that.

Things like ginger, staying above, focusing on the horizon, etc. all help, but for me a good medication is essential.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:57   #21
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Scopolamine causes some people to experience blurred or double vision.

And the reason Stugeron is not legal in the U.S. is because it has been found to cause Parkinsonism.
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Old 07-10-2010, 13:23   #22
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Curious - Am I the only one who read "Sturgeon" instead of "Stugeron?"
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Old 07-10-2010, 14:25   #23
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Hi, Sailstoo,

This is Ann writing, not Jim. I am the one who has been more susceptible to seasickness over the years. Stugeron is what we use. We have also found that to some extent, our bodies do learn to accommodate to the boat's motion. However, there are some people whose bodies just don't.

Other remedies which have helped me include "marezine" and "bonine", OTC in the US. The ear patches have kept me from actually vomiting, but the dry mouth side effect is quite unpleasant to me. Jim's skin became sensitized to it and he had huge welts at the site of the patch which lasted for about 2to 2-1/2 weeks, so he quit using them.

I found I was more susceptible when taking HRT. I've not seen it mentioned as a contributory factor anywhere, but it seemed to be so. Fear and cold seem to make seasickness worse, too.

We read that one component of seasickness is that one's brain has a hard time dealing with contradictory feedback from your eyes vs. your inner ears. Perhaps this is why actually standing up and driving the boat helps. It gives your brain another job than just worrying about how awful you're feeling [not-thinking about it may help], AND you tend to keep your eyes on the horizon, and your ears level.

In spite of some silly responses, I think this thread could really be of value, especially to people just starting out sailing, who find themselves troubled by seasickness.

One time, before we were able to get Stugeron, I was seasick for 19 1/2 days in a row, did survive, stood my watches, and hope never to repeat the experience. We have not had such a long, rough passage since then. It's really important to keep hydrated, and small sips, sitting or standing up, really help.

Finally, we have one friend who begins taking his Stugeron 3 days before departure on a passage, and doesn't need it once at sea! I usually take it first thing in the morning, a few hours before departure. Using it as needed sure improves my life at sea.

Cheers,

Ann Cate, s/v Insatiable II, lying Trinity Inlet, Cairns, Qld., Oz
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Old 07-10-2010, 14:53   #24
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I get sea sick, as well as my grown kids. I do not think it is all in your head, the viscera pulling from side to side probably contributes to the nausea. That is why you should either stand up or lay down- sitting down hunched over frees the viscera to flop back and forth. People do die of torn esophagus or dehydration...but I would probably start an IV and head to the nearest post if my crew went down that road.
Practical Sailor did a pretty decent study a while back- decided that Stugeron was the most effective. I have only used Bonine, but have been successful with that in the past. BTW- does anybody have a reference on the claim that Stugeron causes Parkinson's disease?
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:05   #25
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And the reason Stugeron is not legal in the U.S. is because it has been found to cause Parkinsonism.
Care to show some reference? Doses of cinnarzine (Stugeron) at 75mg (normal motion sickness is 15mg) has been shown to aggravate existing Parinksons. If you check the side effects for all the major motion sickness drugs you will find warnings for various diseases, like glaucoma, asthma, enlarged prostate, hypotension, tachycardia, and palpitations, Hepatic side effects.

The reason you state that Stugeron is not available in the US is just not true.

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Old 07-10-2010, 15:08   #26
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does anybody have a reference on the claim that Stugeron causes Parkinson's disease?
Not that it necessarily causes Parkinson's disease, but Parkinsonism.

Cinnarizine is the active ingredient in Stugeron, and it has been linked to Parkinsonism.

Cinnarizine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cinnarizine - Tardive Dyskinesia Causes

From the second link:

"Cinnarizine is also associated with Parkinsonism, a syndrome with symptoms normally associated with Parkinson's disease. Symptoms are usually drug-induced (particularly by anti-psychotic medications) or due to exposure to certain environmental toxins. In a Spanish study (originally completed in the mid-1990s, but published in 2004), 43 percent of patients treated with cinnarizine were found to have symptoms of parkinsonism and most patients were women. Of those with drug-induced parkinsonism, the majority recovered within a year and a half once they were taken off the drug. Four patients later developed Parkinson's disease, and five developed symptoms of tardive dyskinesia."
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:20   #27
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Care to show some reference? Doses of cinnarzine (Stugeron) at 75mg (normal motion sickness is 15mg) has been shown to aggravate existing Parinksons. If you check the side effects for all the major motion sickness drugs you will find warnings for various diseases, like glaucoma, asthma, enlarged prostate, hypotension, tachycardia, and palpitations, Hepatic side effects.

The reason you state that Stugeron is not available in the US is just not true.
Here is a link to an article published in a medical journal from 1988 discussing the cases of "Cinnarizine induced Parkinsonism". It concludes that "parkinsonism can be induced even by daily doses of cinnarizine of less than 150 mg."

Maybe that might not be "the reason" it is not legally available in the U.S.; in any case, I'm merely passing along the published information that I found in researching it a few weeks back.

A bit more:

Stugeron - Letters to Latitude 38 Magazine

Anyhow, just passing along reasonable words of caution. Take whatever you feel comfortable taking.
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:28   #28
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I looked at that link carefully and I am not convinced, however it bares looking into. 43 percent is a very high number (what was the patient pool??) and what were the symptoms? BTW- many drugs we take today for anti-nausea have similar effects. I will keep an eye out for the study to read it. What worries me the most is not the symptoms but the last line with an apparent linkage with Parkinson's and tardive dyskinesia. What you have to know is: How big was the control population and at what rate did they develop the disease? Is four and five statistically meaningful?
Those comments relate to the first references. The ones in 38 lat I trust a little more. Maybe I will just stick with Bonine.
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:29   #29
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I have read some very damning articles regarding Generic Sturgeon (Cinnarizine). I personally do not get sea sick, but my Girlfriend does. After a few bouts of seasickness during heavy weather we spent some time exploring all the options to help her cope with it. Never the less, Sturgeon did not seem worth the risk.

An over the counter drug that can induce parkinsonism doesn't seem like a good idea to me. However, after seeing the misery of sea sickness up so close that it projected on my lap, I can understand why someone would toss that caution out the window when they are in that conidtion.
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:49   #30
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The first time I ever got really seasick was during a sailing course. I'd been on lots of boats when I was younger and was never sick no matter what the weather. I couldn't believe it was happening to me. I tried ginger tea, didn't taste too bad coming back up, and then found the medizine in the first aid kit. Two of the other students and the instructors told me that nothing would work after I'd started but I took in anyway I after about 30 minutes I was back to normal.

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