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Old 16-02-2007, 13:55   #31
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To my untrained eye it appears as if we've got a bit of personalization working into these threads. If I were a teacher standing before a blackboard sketching out scenarios for a class discussion, I might label the examples as "Boat A" and "Boat B," keeping things completely impersonal. The class would discuss the scenario and some learning would occur.

If, on the other hand, I were to say to the class, "This boat here belonged to good ol' Harry who's now homeless as a result of his mishap," then suddenly a whole new element enters into the discussion. Next thing you know, classmember A begins hammering on classmember B because classmember B said, "I think Harry made a mistake." (which is quite different than saying Boat B made a mistake)

Suddenly, the whole thing jumps off track and spirals out of control.

I think that there is a real value to discussing incidents that are actually happening out there, but I'm not sure how productive it will be if folks keep taking things personally. Should we put labels on those involved? Boat A? Skipper B?
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Old 16-02-2007, 14:09   #32
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Originally Posted by rtbates
It does bother me that some of these folks do very little to prepare themselves for these voyages. They spend years pouring money and time into their freedom vessel, but yet seem to know nothing of the value of heaving to, gaining sea room, or the other myriad of skills necessary to cope out in the ocean.
Well put, Randy. One has only to look at the very short list under the topics of Seamanship and Boathandling vs the many and lengthy discussions under Construction, Maintenance and Refits on this forum to get the sense that there may be more interest in working on the boat rather than sailing the boat.
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Old 16-02-2007, 14:21   #33
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Originally Posted by alohaboat
I would like to re-direct the discussion just a bit to make it a bit more positive. What would I do if I received a Pan call from these folks?

I will say that it would be difficult to give anyone a tow in 15 to 20 seas and high winds in the vicinity of foul and rocky shore and 30 feet of water. I know I would not be able to do it with my boat without endangering the safety of my boat and crew. I certainly would not be able to launch my dinghy in those conditions. I probably would have put out an anchor if possible and put one of my crew in a harness with rope tether and PFD and have them swim over to the stricken vessel to take these folks off one at a time over water. But I'm not sure that is the prudent thing to do.

Help me out here, what should I do to help these people in this situation?
I saw your post earlier and mulled it over this afternoon.........my answer was going to be a lot longer, but the not so shortish answer is that I would heartily recomend to them that although probably not attractive the best option is probably that they try and get ashore themselves if they suspect they are in imminent danger - otherwise try and stay put until the weather abates / daylight arrives or other help appears.

If this was not an option I would try and float an inflatable dinghy down to them on the end of a very long warp. Whether this would in fact reach them / could be directed towards them or even whether they could climb aboard unassisted would be a good question, I suspect that it is one of those things which would require "The gods to be smiling on you" to even attempt, let alone to succeed.

Depending on how many crew I had onboard and who they were (I would not send the wife. probably ) and the sea state, the dinghy may be manned to help guide it inshore - but would always be attached to my vessel. No Swimmers.

Of course success would also depend on how close inshore I am comfortable getting, and as this would probably be an unscheduled stop for me this may well not be very close given my probable lack of detailed Navigation info. I would prefer to not be anchored so I could try and power me and the dinghy out of trouble, but it very much depends on circumstances and who was onboard as to whether I would risk dropping the hook.

If I was alone and I thought they had no option of getting ashore (ie they were beneath a sheer cliff - NOT "merely" that they had a 90% chance of drowning if swimming for shore) and I was close enough then I would try and risk anchoring up and floating a dinghy down (possibly even with me in it - if I was feeling especially stupid ) if I thought there was a chance (It would help my decision if any Rescuee had large breasts and no Bikini , unless the Missus was onboard ) .......but I would not do this if it meant leaving the Missus onboard or other crew who were not competent to cope without me.

For a vessel already aground, especially in unfamiliar waters, I suspect that in practice their is little that someone in a yacht offshore could do who was not in at least a decent RIB. or a helicopter . Certainly no chance of a transfer by simply going alongside........after all it is stuck on something

Not much of a plan.........I guess I would really need WIFI so I could open a Thread here to seek advice
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Old 16-02-2007, 14:30   #34
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if I thought there was a chance (It would help my decision if any Rescuee had large breasts and no Bikini , unless the Missus was onboard )
LOL

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Old 16-02-2007, 14:52   #35
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Putting another deep draft boat in the vicinity of a vessel on a lee shore is probably not a good idea. One can, however, serve a role in communications. The skipper of the vessel in trouble will undoubtedly have his/her hands full and may not be in the best frame of mind to communicate effectively. An assisting vessel may be able to coordinate with SAR personnel. The assisting vessel can also help calm and reassure the skipper of the grounded boat, maybe assiting him/her in laying out the necessary tasks to either free the boat or make preparations for leaving the vessel.
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Old 16-02-2007, 15:01   #36
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The article on this couple's grounding mentioned the pangas that the locals used to provide assistance. Having spent many an hour in a Mexican panga, I just wanted to put in a plug for a design that has proven itself well over the years. Flat bottomed and with a pronounced bow, they are the boat of choice for local fishing fleets launching and landing through surf. I've been very, very impressed by the way I've seen some of the local captains handle those sturdy boats.
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Old 16-02-2007, 16:06   #37
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Experience is a tricky thing... someone smarter than me said that experience gives you the test, and then teaches you the lesson. People make mistakes, I make them all the time... sometimes they cost me, sometimes I get lucky. I bet that every single person here has taken a risk, made a mistake, and gotten away with it... not been written up by the media for their mistake. Luckily you are not the fodder for internet ridicule.

How does one get experience without taking the risk, and putting their abilities on the line. I do a fair amount of rock climbing... which alot of people do not understand. I get people asking me why... which can't be explained till you do it. There have been times when I have been in a situation I have not been in before, read about, or even considered... and had to figure it out. Luckily I lived... not sure if that was me, or luck. Point being... now I have that experience... and can deal with even more.

I think that these people did what they believed was the best thing... they did not intend on sinking their boat... and it sucks for them now. I may have taken the same actions, but as is obvious, I am not as "experienced" as some others here... and thus would get (maybe will get some day) beat up on the internet.

It is a shame that the first reaction is to beat up on these people... even if they did make a mistake. I do not know enough to know if they made a mistake... I wasn't there. If they did though... now we can learn from it. Most of the guidelines for life and sailing have been figured out by someone making a mistake. Since Titanic, every cruise line now carries enough life rafts. Since the MGM fire in Vegas years ago... building codes changed for our safety. Because so many "idiots" download viruses, we all now know how to protect our computers.

Anybody not making mistakes can not be that interesting.
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Old 16-02-2007, 16:55   #38
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honest question

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I'm afraid that by the time I retire and get to sea they'll have ruined everything. I've spent the last 30 years sailing. Starting with a 13' Cardinal, a 21' San Juan, a 27' Buccaneer, and finally a Cape Dory 25D. During those 30 years I've tried to come up the learning curve and gain experience, both first hand and from others more experienced.
rtbates, if someone had given you a 40 ft boat 20 years ago, would you have said " No thanks, I'm not ready" ? This is not a personal question, maybe you could afford a 70 ft boat. It just seems that some people resent people with larger boats when they feel they haven't "earned" them through experience. You can't get experience without going out there, and we constantly hear that larger is safer. I would say that 6 years cruising in a 40 ft boat should prevent them being labelled as reckless and inexperienced. They deserved to be out there sailing as much as anyone. They may not have had to face these specific conditions if they had 15 years experience. There is no magic in the number of years of boat ownership or the years of sailing experience, although it does help.
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