Alternative Boat Defense

[Bruce Johnson]

Just sign on crew that has extensive martial arts training, and always wear running shoes. They can fight while you run away...
I'm thinking of dubbing recordings onto one audio tape of all 3 of my exwives screaming at me. Any bad guys should leave pronto when hearing this. I did....

[four winds]

I've read that fire extinguishers have been removed from the hallways of some apartment buildings in England. The reasoning seems to be that residents aren't qualified to use them, so they should just evacuate and let the trained personnel handle it. Also suggesting that untrained users open themselves up to litigation.

Anyone with direct knowledge of this?

I expect to go my entire sailing experience with no fire on board. I don't sail in fear of my boat catching on fire. But I have three fire extinguishers on board anyway, and not just because they are required. You can't go anywhere that fire is not a possibility, however remote.

I expect to go my entire sailing experience with no need to protect myself. I don't sail in fear of needing to do so. But I have pepper spray on board, and I'm qualified in use. You can't go anywhere that personal attack is not a possibility, however remote.

Before it's suggested, I'm not saying personal protection items should be mandatory by regulation.

The odds of needing an item for personal protection are very, very slim. Probably more slim than fire in fact. But I would consider it just another piece of safety gear on board that a skipper might consider useful on rare occasion. I realize many people could never see pepper spray as safety gear, or a defensive item. It will be considered an offensive item for some I'm sure, but I don't agree with that.



I try hard not make generalizations about citizens from other counties. It upsets me at what some of my fellow Americans say on this. It doesn't take much travel, or even watching international news to know better if one has an open mind.

I'm surprised at the generalizations presented here about Americans. Considering most folks here are world travelers I would have expected something different.

We are not all ignorant and arrogant, nor fear everyone is out to get us, nor religious zealots, nor pepper spray nuts, nor any other stereotype presented.

That's my best shot at explaining how I feel about the subject. I'll refrain from further comment here or any other thread in the future. Maybe the mods will close the thread soon. I get depressed when I read some things expressed in this thread. Most of which were already removed by the mods. thankfully.

[kenny chaos]

about internet forum reply's-

I remember when I went from building houses to doing big commercial/industrial buildings. I was very excited about
working with the "big boys." These would be real men's men.
They'd be strong, courageous, righteous, and know how to take care of business. I was psyched. I was missing my team from the service.
The very first day on the job I sat in an empty chair in the trailer for lunch.
The biggest lug on the site came in and said I was sitting in his chair. Everyone started laughing at me, I thought I knew what was going on, and showed him the door.
I then learned there was a pecking order and the higher you were, the closer you got to sit to the foreman in the front of the trailer.
I asked, "Really? Assigned seats? Are you kidding me? This must be a joke on the new guy?" They were serious and I was shocked. It took awhile to get over that one and I never did eat lunch in the trailer.

Moral of the story; eat a big breakfast

[Whimsy]

As to the effectiveness of the pepperball-shooting flashlight-looking piece under discussion, I think the paintball type pepper system creates a very small cloud of vapor with very little chance of liquid put in places where its needed most - the eyes, mouth and nose. Pepper spray is already a marginal weapon against any serious attack and so the type of delivery system is critical...

And if a paintball-type projectile hit is directly on the face, where it is most needed, there is more chance of mechanical damage like blindness from the projectile hitting the eye, which kind of defeats the whole "no-permanent-damage weapon" purpose. Any who have trained with paintball know goggles are a must against eye loss, and much other protection is recommended.

I like the idea of a pepper weapon disguised as a flashlight, but think the high-volume, high-pressure, long-shooting liquid dispensers are the best for the purpose, and even then are proven marginal at effectively debilitating most adrenalin-pumped attackers. That's why a law enforcement officer will draw his firearm and not his pepper spray if a violent attack of any seriousness seems likely - they use pepper spray and tasers to "enforce behavior" and to repel unarmed "nuisance attacks" by weak individuals, not where any real danger to life or limb threatens. This is standard to their training.

[stuborndancer]

Haha its starting to sound like I might be better of with a big stick . I just thought it was an interesting item and liked the flashlight capability, but as far as seriously considering carrying something like it, I have no idea. I'm far off from having a boat of my own, and I'm sure crewing with others will have a drastic effect on my opinions on such things.

As far as having to hit them in the face with it or it not working, its not that way at all. From what I read, if you hit anywhere near a person a slight inhalation of the pepper will cause them to become incapacitated. Guards in prisons have been using them because they are so effective at crowd control, while at the same time its just a flashlight.

Its actually just the pure heat part of chilis so supposedly there is no permanent damage to people who are effected by it unlike most pepper sprays. But honestly thats just what I read so who knows really.

Reguarding laws. Yeah I guess I should do a lot more reasearch into what contries dislike these kind of things, and like you made mention of Patient that if i'm going to have pepper spray it might be a bad idea to have something that shoots it via battery power, simply because it would be lumped into a bad category lol. You also make another interesting point of having to detain them until some arrived. I guess I had it more in my head that it could be a good deterrent for a thief and would make them want to leave quickly... but that contradicts even what I have written in my own posts. If a person is incapacitated they are not going to be leaving most likely haha.

[barnakiel]

It has been tested and proven that flooding dark corners with light clears them of the dark element.

I noticed that some marina docks are way too dark. Not only dangerous but also making the acts of any unwelcome visitor way easier.

Some sailors have smart sensors that flood the deck with light when an intruder (or a stray cat) approaches. Seems like a good idea to me if can be effectively applied.

[boatman61]

Actually Chilli's can blind and even kill.... used to be a popular way of amusing oneself and disposing of captives.... insert a random amout of chilli's into a prisoners waste disposal orifice and watch him scream and bounce his way to eternity...
Spanish Piri Piri...

[Whimsy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

.... used to be a popular way of amusing oneself and disposing of captives.... insert a random amout of chilli's into a prisoners... (horror deleted here) and watch...

Popular form of amusement? Popular with WHO?

I must have missed the fad, but then keeping up with pop culture has never been an interest of mine...

So. You did this? You saw someone do it? You read this somewhere? Or just heard a rumor...? Sounds like something Sadam Hussein might have done to Iraqis that had the nerve to speak out against him...

Please excuse my curiosity, but it IS a very 'curious' post.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Whimsy

Popular form of amusement? Popular with WHO?

I must have missed the fad, but then keeping up with pop culture has never been an interest of mine...

So. You did this? You saw someone do it? You read this somewhere? Or just heard a rumor...? Sounds like something Sadam Hussein might have done to Iraqis that had the nerve to speak out against him...

Please excuse my curiosity, but it IS a very 'curious' post.

Boatman used to work for Dick Cheney

[goboatingnow]

Most countries take a dim view of any sort of personal defense weapon that has no use outside of such activities, Hence Tasers, pepper sprays etc tend to be banned. I fail to see why any boater would have one.

I expect to go my entire sailing experience with no need to protect myself. I don't sail in fear of needing to do so. But I have pepper spray on board, and I'm qualified in use. You can't go anywhere that personal attack is not a possibility, however remote.

This type of justification is quite fallacious really. fire, which is quite a common and deadly occurence and personal protection which is an extremely rare requirement is a very dubious comparison.

Equally falling on your head, is a rare occurance, do you therefore wear a helmet, how about always wearing a lifejacket, being scalded by boiling water, so your wearing a protective suit. Sorry you are advancing "teh number of angels on the head of a pin" argument.

It worries me greatly , that there is a subset of cruisers that feel the need to bring potentially dangerous, offensive "weapons" into the cruising lifestyle. I would prefer if the paranoid just stayed at home thank you.

Dave

[vbrent]

LRAD 100X is a self contained, hand portable loud hailer and that can easily be heard over the background noise of vehicles, vessels, sirens and boisterous crowds to ensure the messages and commands are heard and clearly understood.

Coastal Surveillance
LRAD systems assist littoral and coastal security agencies in protecting waterways and enforcing marine regulations. LRAD is used to determine the intent at distance of unidentified vessels and can be used as part of an escalation of force, deterring intruding vessels with a highly effective warning tone.

Sonic Weapons
Heart rate patterns following vibroacoustic stimulation has resulted in serious negative consequences such as atrial flutter and bradycardia.

[sww914]

Pepper spray can be funny.
I had a can when I lived in Honolulu and it ended up in my toolbox at work. There was this really big hairy disgusting bug-eyed rat from hell that hung around near my tools. I'd see him staring me down from behind the spraybooth sometimes, trying to intimidate me, just giving me that rat look, you know.
One day I saw that nappy stinking rodent glaring at me and I came across that can of pepper spray in amongst my tools. BINGO! I'll shoot that matted piece of vermin with the pepper spray. I stalked around the corner out of sight of his surveillance and quietly readied my weapon. I sprung out and shot him!
Got him right in his beady little eyes.
2 seconds later I heard my boss, a good 100' away sneeze.
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
He was Japanese, they make the same sound when they sneeze-
Achoo!Achoo!Achoo!Achoo!Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
Achoo!
I still laugh every time I remember it.
The big rat never tried to mock me again after that.

[downunder]

Harming the native rats. An offence in some juristrictions without a permit.

There are always proponents for and against many issues - thats life.

Can't see why people get get so upset when self defence and guns are mentioned. Hey, its not a perfect world, there are terrorists, people are shot and mugged and piracy is a reality.

These issues will always come up when these issues, real issues for some cruisers are discussed. Why get our nickers in a knot over a discussion.

I liked MarkJ concept of dummy machine gun mounted on deck.

Perhaps should start a thread to see who can come up with a cost effective plan for one. May be a bit close to the bone although for some.
better to run up the white flag.

[Feral Cement]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

You just happened to walk in the door with one of the most controversial subjects in hand. For your future safety, the other one is anchor types.

Gas vs Diesel, anyone?

John

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Actually Chilli's can blind and even kill.... used to be a popular way of amusing oneself and disposing of captives.... insert a random amout of chilli's into a prisoners waste disposal orifice and watch him scream and bounce his way to eternity...
Spanish Piri Piri...

Now this has real potential.

Would you recommend they have their AK47 safety catch 'on' when you insert the chilli? Could be pretty hazardous otherwise... all that leaping around...