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Old 01-09-2013, 08:54   #121
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Just fyi . . . . If commercial classed they are SOLAS, and most are commercial classed for tax reasons.

don't think so

(a) The present regulations, unless expressly provided otherwise, do not apply to:
(i) Ships of war and troopships.
(ii) Cargo ships of less than 500 gross tonnage.
(iii) Ships not propelled by mechanical means.
(iv) Wooden ships of primitive build.
(v) Pleasure yachts not engaged in trade.
(vi) Fishing vessels.
(b) Except as expressly provided in chapter V, nothing herein shall apply to ships solely navigating the Great Lakes of North America and the River St Lawrence as far east as a straight line drawn from Cap des Rosiers to West Point, Anticosti Island and, on the north side of Anticosti Island, the 63rd meridian.

dave
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:14   #122
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

The EU has extended AIS to fishing vessels effective I believe in 2015. So we should see more and more of those types of vessels include in the AIS-sphere

dave
Spain:
"El Real Decreto RD1593/2010 establece la obligatoriedad de emitir y recibir información AIS (Automatic Identification System) a buques pesqueros de bandera española con más de 15 metros de eslora. Los buques pesqueros superiores a 24 mts. serán los primeros llamados a cumplir con el RD y tienen como fecha límite para disponer de un AIS clase A operativo el 31 de mayo del 2012. Les seguirán los buques pesqueros de más de 18mts. y 15mts. de eslora requeridos a instalar un AIS clase A en mayo del 2013 y 2014 respectivamente."

Or in plain English:
fishing vessels to be equipped with AIS class A
>24m from 31.05.2012
>18m from 31.05.2013
>15m from 31.05.2014
And this is happening. People cruising in the western Med should have noticed that the number of fishing vessel showing AIS is getting up quickly.
Static data are quite crappy, but that is in the line with a lot of other comercial AIS stations.....
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:50   #123
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
don't think so
To get either RINA or MCA commercial class you must meet solas - I have been thru both processes.

Your point "v" does not apply to commercial classed super yachts - they are commercial classed and no longer 'pleasure vessels'.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:25   #124
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

^^ Looking at my MCA documents . . . . Just to be a bit more precise . . . .

MCA Large Commercial Yacht code says generally:
"The basic provision is for the principles of SOLAS to be met,
however, some sections have been identified where alternative standards can be accepted, where appropriate."


And specifically with regards to AIS:
"Shall be fitted with an approved automatic identification system (AIS) in accordance with SOLAS Chapter V, no later than 31st December 2004."

I know we were absolutely required by the inspectors to fit AIS on both vessels (but the captain's wanted it in any case).

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Old 01-09-2013, 15:00   #125
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

Evans, not arguing , MCA for large yachts implements SOLAS. However that does not make them SOLAS vessels. ( with the exception of charter V application).

SOLAS is generally excepted to be commercial vessles 500 tons GRT on international voyages or passenger ships over 12 passengers, where the full body of SOLAS regulations apply.

Ive gone through MCA commercial yacht codes ( large and small) too.

I was merely originally saying that super yachts are not required to be MCA coded ( unless British, or dependancies, flagged) and hence fall outside the SOLAS code.

Many super yachts require no specific manning or classification. However as you point out the MCA Large yacht program has been adopted by many , including its associated manning requirements. ( It led to a great re-interest in RYA YM programmes too!!).

dave
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:06   #126
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Are the chemtrails sites down?
Yes they are but I'll gut it out & get through it

All kidding aside, I'm just leery of any device that broadcasts my position.
I know where I'm at & for me that's all that matters. Does AIS assist in helping folks avoid potential problems, I'm sure it does.

I just feel that all the electronics that are out there in today's recreational boats provide a false sense of security. AIS helps you detect big ships that are broadcasting a signal but many smaller vessels don't. Logs, containers & whales aren't broadcasting AIS signals.
How many times do we hear about a GPS assisted grounding from chart plotters?

Of course this is coming from a guy that still uses paper charts, a depth sounder, hand held GPS, binoculars & radar....

Peace!
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:14   #127
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

Quote:
AIS helps you detect big ships that are broadcasting a signal but many smaller vessels don't. Logs, containers & whales aren't broadcasting AIS signals.
sorry to be pedantic, AIS helps you by allowing your boat to be detected by others. Thats its primarily objective.

The fact that some categories of vessels don't have AIS or logs or whatever ., does not invalidate the advantages of your position being broadcast nor invalidate the reason for AIS in general.

I always find it bizarre, that some people dismiss AIS , merely because certain vessels may not be transmiting it. A lot of time I can't sail towards my destination , should I dismiss sailing!!

dave
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Old 01-09-2013, 16:28   #128
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

I like Mark's argument that it's a lot easier for a ship doing twenty knots to avoid you than it is for you to avoid the ship at four knots.

It's more important for them to see you.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:45   #129
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
Yes they are but I'll gut it out & get through it


Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
All kidding aside, I'm just leery of any device that broadcasts my position.
Agree! I too have a problem when my position is used by others for purposes different than the reason I broadcast it. Again, there is no reason for AIS broadcasts to be repeated on the Internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I know where I'm at & for me that's all that matters. Does AIS assist in helping folks avoid potential problems, I'm sure it does.

I just feel that all the electronics that are out there in today's recreational boats provide a false sense of security. AIS helps you detect big ships that are broadcasting a signal but many smaller vessels don't. Logs, containers & whales aren't broadcasting AIS signals.
How many times do we hear about a GPS assisted grounding from chart plotters?

Of course this is coming from a guy that still uses paper charts, a depth sounder, hand held GPS, binoculars & radar....

Peace!
And there will still be collisions between vessels when both are using AIS. AIS can't fix stupid. AIS does ease the task of the navigator/helmsman.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:04   #130
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Re: AIS: A Creepy Experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
Yes they are but I'll gut it out & get through it

All kidding aside, I'm just leery of any device that broadcasts my position.
I know where I'm at & for me that's all that matters. Does AIS assist in helping folks avoid potential problems, I'm sure it does.

I just feel that all the electronics that are out there in today's recreational boats provide a false sense of security. AIS helps you detect big ships that are broadcasting a signal but many smaller vessels don't. Logs, containers & whales aren't broadcasting AIS signals.
How many times do we hear about a GPS assisted grounding from chart plotters?

Of course this is coming from a guy that still uses paper charts, a depth sounder, hand held GPS, binoculars & radar....

Peace!
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
sorry to be pedantic, AIS helps you by allowing your boat to be detected by others. Thats its primarily objective.

The fact that some categories of vessels don't have AIS or logs or whatever ., does not invalidate the advantages of your position being broadcast nor invalidate the reason for AIS in general.

I always find it bizarre, that some people dismiss AIS , merely because certain vessels may not be transmiting it. A lot of time I can't sail towards my destination , should I dismiss sailing!!

dave

When I was learning to fly I was taught that the best way to avoid collisions is to “see and be seen”! It is equally applicable to sailing. It works both ways.

Like Dave, I fail to understand why anyone with an AIS transmit capability would not want to assist the other boats reduce the risk of collision! If everyone has a good AIS picture the workload on watch is reduced and there is that much more time to lookout for the logs, whales, and other hazards such as those recreational boaters who have the false sense of security and aren't keeping a good watch!

AIS and GPS are electronic tools. If used correctly they are an aid to help a sailor and do not replace the need to exercise good seamanship.

There are a few situations where turning off the AIS transmitter is prudent. However, the majority of the time it is exercising better seamanship to transmit.
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