Air Quality for Liveaboards

[GordMay]

Ozone (O3) is a highly reactive gas composed of 3 oxygen atoms. It is formed in a chemical reaction between the diatomic oxygen molecule (O2) and an oxygen atom (O).

Ozone is a toxic gas with vastly different chemical and toxicological properties from oxygen.

Ozone is ineffective in killing airborne fungi and molds, even at concentrations almost 100 times the recommended limit for human exposure!

Most Health Professionals recommend that 0zone generators not be used.

"Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners: An Assessment of Effectiveness and Health Consequences"
Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners | Publications | Indoor Air | Air | US EPA

Health Canada warns the public about air cleaners designed to intentionally generate ozone (Ozone generators)
Health Canada warns the public about air cleaners designed to intentionally generate ozone (Ozone generators)

The FDA has approved the use of ozone in gaseous and aqueous phases as an antimicrobial agent on food, including meat and poultry, and as a germicide in the cleaning of manufacturing equipment.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Jackstee

It is a disinfectant remember. Thats why hospitals use them.

we have an ozone generator air purifier that runs in our house and we believe it has reduced our repiratory problems especially in the winter. it also helps with odors that arise from high humidity since our home is near the ocean. i noticed that the wires inside the unit are indeed corroded but it has not affected anything else. i think a small unit would be a good thing to try in a boat.

[ssullivan]

I have to stress... just cleaning the mold up properly when living aboard a boat is your best solution. Spend $10 instead of hundreds and get a better result. All that's required is your time.

I cleaned up our boat in Sept or so, and haven't seen a single growth of mold since. We live aboard and someone is on the boat at all times every single day making moisture. No mold and no electricity required to keep it that way. The borax is the key.

[Zeus]

Once you have done what Sean did to get rid of the problem would it be worth the money to buy a quality HEPA system. If I am not mistaken the spores are the way that the mold spreads. A quality HEPA system will capture most if not all of the spores that may possibly enter your boat. At the very least I would imagine that the filter would extend the time between each scrub.

[mike d.]

sean my guess is you all are getting sensitized by the dry air of the wood burner. am an asthamatic and can tell you i don't need much to trigger a prob in a hose with a wood stove ect. you could be drying the air out to much. my brother has a wood stove in his house still gets sick alot. to hot and dry in house. and has a prob. with mold when stove not in use. just a thought don't know if it's all related or not.

[ssullivan]

Mike D... I appreciate the helpful comment, but this is an old thread. We have had no issues with any type of breathing or mold since sometime in Sept.

Speaking to problems your brother has though, if he stores the wood inside the house, it can contribute to mold and humidity as it dries. It's a big no no to store the wood inside especially if you have an allergy problem.

In addition to the wood stove, which dries out the air nicely on nights like tonight, we have a dehumidifier on as well. The air in a boat is always high humidity. With both of those, it does approach an almost "house dry" state.

Drifting the thread a little... just cooked up a nice meal on the Little Cod wood stove. So rewarding. No energy bill AND a meal cooked for free. Can't go wrong there.

Thanks again for the thoughtful comment, but we haven't had any issues since I did the Borax scrub back in Sept.

[hellosailor]

Sean, no energy bill for a wood stove?! Last time I paid for and unloaded a quarter cord of seasoned wood, the only reason there was no bill was because the man wanted cash on delivery.<G> Don't tell me you've found a free source for firewood? Even the old packing skids (which burn fast even when they aren't painted or treated wood) usually have deposits on them.

[Richhh]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Once you have done what Sean did to get rid of the problem would it be worth the money to buy a quality HEPA system. If I am not mistaken the spores are the way that the mold spreads. A quality HEPA system will capture most if not all of the spores that may possibly enter your boat. At the very least I would imagine that the filter would extend the time between each scrub.

HEPA is comparatively expensive and is going to take a considerable amount of power to operate ..... and its of little benefit because a boat is open to atmosphere too often. To make HEPA work well you'd need an 'air-lock' on all your companionways and hatches, etc.

Better solution is to get paraformaldehyde crystals and simply spread them out on plastic trays in several locations when you're off the boat for any long period. Para-f is quite potent against mold spores .... but the boat HAS to be cleaned (as well as Sean has). When you return, open the boat, hold your breath, get the remaining crystals and you out of the boat (while still holding your breath) let the boat fully air-out for an hour or so before reentering. Para-F is fairly cheap and you can still get it in commercial marine supply sources ... but probably not in CA, NJ, NY, etc.

Been working with some new technology that should prove interesting to 'boat problems' with mold in the future: Running a 'dry'-fog of Peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide. A very potent, yet quite safe method of killing essentially ALL bioforms - better than quats, gluteraldehydes, etc. and a hell of a lot safer. The dry fog needs some humidity control, but since the fog is 'dry' nothing gets wetted inside the space but since the fog particles are so small it penetrates into all the nooks and crannies that wet methods simply cant get to ... and the fog then essentially degrades to an eco-friendly mix of vinegar and water .... but still doesnt wet-out everything in sight. (Vinegar simply isnt going to do a good 'kill'.) The technology is spreading in the EU and elsewhere for hospital and pharma disinfection of large spaces; and, as soon as it become more avialable in the Western Hemisphere, it might be something that would quite suitable (and profitable) for killing bioforms in boats, buildings, ... on a commercial service basis. But you still need to do the coarse removal using scrub brushes, etc. while wearing a 'spacesuit' --- first.

Until then ... consider paraformaldehyde crystals .... but first clean-up all that mold, especially the 'black' molds that can be extremely potent biohazards. Dont just kill the mold (using clorox, etc.), but then remove it with caustics (soaps, etc.) as caustics dissolve the cells. If you just kill it and leave the cells, other subsequent species can use the old dead cells as their nutrient source. Its simply beyond belief that the EPA in most areas simply recommend a kill with chlorox, etc. and dont recommend an aggresive removal afterwords .... oh well, what do you expect from 'bureaucrats' stuck in obsolete technology and who have no modern idea of whats really happening.

The probable WORST location of mold is in your water tank">fresh water tank vent line ... and the spores get drawn into the tank water every time you open a tap. I use a bio-blocking vent filter to prevent aspiration of bioforms into my tank water .... but thats another subject entirely.

[Zeus]

As one who does not yet own a boat I keep forgetting one little aspect of boat ownership....power consumption. I figured there had to be a good reason for the HEPA deal.....and there was. Thanks rich

[GordMay]

Disclaimer: I am an interested amateur, with some peripheral experience in mold remediation - I am not an expert.

If you want to avoid mildew and other moisture related problems, keep your boat both DRY and CLEAN.

Most of the molds found indoors, actually come in from the outside, and proliferate in areas of high humidity. The growth of molds can be prevented by carefully regulating the indoor environment (temperature between 60̊ and 65̊F (15̊–18̊C) and RH below 50%) of the boat.

Products containing paraformaldehyde are "toxic" to both mildew and people.
Cautious use of evaporating fungicide crystals (e.g., paraformaldehyde, or paradichlorobenzene), in an enclosed area, such as an air-sealed boat, may reduce the airborne mold levels for a period of months.
Any living space, treated in such a way, should be well ventilated afterwards (for at least a day) before it is re-occupied.

Paraformaldehyde, if used as a disinfectant, is required to be registered as a pesticide (1988 EPA FIFRA pesticides subject to regulation). Paraformaldehyde is a polymer of formaldehyde and, when heated (an inherently hazardous procedure), produces formaldehyde gas. Formaldehyde has been identified as a mutagen and a carcinogen, and the current exposure level standard is 3 ppm.

Safety data for paraformaldehyde
PARAFORMALDEHYDE
Safety (MSDS) data for paraformaldehyde

And:
Chemical Mildew Inhibitors: Should I Use Them? How?

[ssullivan]

Hellosailor: You have to think beyond your local neighborhood to get free wood. Of course where you are now, you won't find it unless you volunteer to remove a downed tree or something. Yes, I have free firewood and have for 2 years now.

Gord: One little comment. Keeping a boat below 50% relative humidity is a practical impossibility in my experience. Even with a dehumidifier, enough moist sea air still creeps in to keep us above that 50% level. I think (and I could be wrong) that 50% is more of a air conditioned library or server room level of humidity. Boats are just pretty damp. And forget about that level at anchor unless you're running a genset 24/7 like the megayachts.

[Sandero]

I believe that the average humidity level in NYC is something like 57%...

[ssullivan]

Could be. Does that inlcude winter months? Humidity outside in the winter is very low, while at the same time humidity inside is very high. Breathing, cooking, drying damp dish towels, etc... all produce moisture that ends up on your ports and your hatches in extreme cold. The boat's interior humidity doesn't match the exterior humidity unless you open up and air out. Not so useful when it's cold out.

In summer, humidity is higher, and that's when we are likely to open up. It's a lose/lose situation for the humidity inside the boat.

Sorry... I've become way too much of an expert on this stuff!

[GordMay]

There are significant differences in New York City’s relative humidity statistics, depending upon where & when you measure RH.


ie: Yearly average is, variously, 55, 56 or 58% R/H - looking a lot like Jeff's 57% avg.

Location YEARS (AM/PM) JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC ANN

NEW YORK CENTRAL.PARK, 68 68 68 60 68 57 68 54 67 51 71 53 74 56 75 55 78 57 79 57 76 55 73 59 69 60 72 56

NEW YORK (JFK Airport) 41 41 71 60 71 57 71 56 70 55 73 59 75 60 75 59 78 60 80 60 78 57 76 59 72 60 74 58

NEW YORK (LAGUARDIA Airport),
40 40 67 58 65 55 67 53 67 51 71 53 72 54 72 53 75 55 76 57 74 55 71 58 68 59 70 55

Goto: Average Relative Humidity(%)

[Nicholson58]

Sailing in the North Channel for three weeks last summer (Canada/Lake Huron) we noticed quite the opposite. Neither of us blew our noses once the entire time. Great clean air up there. I suppose much different in the tropics.