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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a liferaft designed to be self-serviced
Yes 41 83.67%
No 4 8.16%
Maybe 4 8.16%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27-10-2011, 17:40   #31
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Quality control is not necessarily simple. Zodiac had their glued seams falling apart. Crewfit had gled inflation valves in PFDs literally falling out. The QC is easy--if oyu can get a trusted supply chain, as well as trusted workers.

Couple of years ago one of the business magazines was talking abouit the pros and cons of manufacturing in China. One of the companies they interviewed couldn't figure out how such good counterfeits of their product were coming on the market. Until they found out that their new Chinese factory, which was supposed to be working one day shift, was also being run by family of their local staff on a second night shift. Using all their equipment and tooling, and inferior counterfeited parts.
Zero overhead, nice concept, huh?

Chinese industry, US bankers...same morality problems, huh?

I's sooner skydive buck naked than let either one pack my parachute.
Yep.

But it is just their culture. We have to learn to be tolerant of others views of the world (right and wrong).

Yea Right!
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Old 27-10-2011, 18:25   #32
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DOJ,
But don't give up David, Apple rehired Steve when things went bad.
If only Boatman 61 would fit a rain-catching hood, and cutouts for a couple of stubbies in the arm rest, i'd chuck some dinero in the IPO.
I can do that.....
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Old 02-11-2011, 15:59   #33
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

My objection to liferafts is that when I need it most I won't have a clue what to do with it. It's not like every sailing school offers classes in how to tie the liferaft to your boat and how to get into it. May be a simple exercise, but not in a howling gale and breaking seas.

Legally speaking I can service my inflatable lifejacket myself, though the checklist looks daunting. I service almost every part of my boat, why not a liferaft?

As to the lawyers, I'd rather have a school of them circling my live body than my dead corpse. Given how long it takes for them to get their act together I don't think there'd be very much flesh left by the time they struck...
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:34   #34
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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... I service almost every part of my boat, why not a liferaft? ...
You can. Just don't expect the OEM to certify or warrant it.

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
My objection to liferafts is that when I need it most I won't have a clue what to do with it ...
How is our incompetence the life raft's fault?
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:23   #35
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

I look at it this way. I have 4 hydrostatic PFDs on the boat and service these each year, and to date have only replaced one co2 bottle due to a misshap with the manual inflation cord. Dam near drove the locker latch through the back of my head when I jumped.

As for the life raft mine is in a valese and is out of date by a few years. I have been thinking about pulling it out and having a look. I have been told the main reason for the inspection is to replace the consumables (water, food and flares) . my main worry would be if I needed to replace the Co2 getting a new one and then being able to get it back in its bag. I have never got the dinghy back in its bag!
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:42   #36
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
You can. Just don't expect the OEM to certify or warrant it.
With the DOJ Raft there is no certification process - therefore the raft is not either "in date" nor "out of date".

Not being sold as a "Liferaft" means does not need to meet any 3rd Party (the existing Manufacturers cabal) requirements, anymore than the fridge needs to be certified as a "liferaft".

Much like a s/h rubber dink, some will become f##ked over time. But (when buying s/h) it will be fairly straightforward to check. Pretty much the same as not buying a s/h dink from seeing it only when in a bag.

Obviously the manufacturer will not be making money directly from the s/h market (apart from maybe service kits) - but anything that helps maintain the s/h value also helps on new sales.


Quote:
How is our incompetence the life raft's fault?
If money were no object all crew could have annual life raft training........as it is, the reality being that 99% (my own Stat ) never look inside and simply expect (hope?) it works if the time comes, and that they will be able to work out WTF goes where and why.........

.......even if folk never splash the DOJ raft to see what happens, and simply do an annual / biannual (or longer ) service they will personally know what is inside and how it works.

Anyway, this idea on a backburner at the moment
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:45   #37
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

DOJ,
Just went through the same thing, best of luck to ya. I came out OK, hope you do, too. Better to find out now. Later is always too late.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:10   #38
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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I have never got the dinghy back in its bag!
Yeah, that's because the bags are too small


BTW, on a general note am not trying to replace the traditional (old fashioned ) Liferaft.

If someone wants a "Death Raft" that's up to them
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:16   #39
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
1. With the DOJ Raft there is no certification process - therefore the raft is not either "in date" nor "out of date".
2. Not being sold as a "Liferaft" means does not need to meet any 3rd Party (the existing Manufacturers cabal) requirements ...
... 3. Anyway, this idea on a backburner at the moment
Ah; no after purchase service nor support (1), and meets no standards of fitness for use (perhaps, because it has no use?)(2). Just what we’re all seeking.
Good idea. (3)
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:37   #40
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Gord,
Am I correct in my feeling that you are not on board (so to speak) with DOJ on this idea. He is
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:43   #41
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Bottom line, current life rafts you can inspect yourself. Have spoken to a couple of guys who have done their own. Trickiest part, as previously noted, is getting it back into the bag. Secret here (from a guy who did it), is to carefully document the unfolding process (pictures are good), remove all the air after inflating (vacuum cleaner for a while will work), and fold it back exactly the way it unfolded.

I asked a couple of life raft re packers and a big part of the cost of recertification is replacing the consumables, like the 5 pints (or whatever minimal, almost useless quantity is packed) of water, dehydrated food stuff, batteries for the canopy light, etc. Not just the cost of the items but the extra time to deal with them all. Without that the cost to re certify could be half BUT they are not allowed by (law, manufacturer, CG, ???) to repack without these. Personally I think my ditch bag a much better way to deal with water and consumables anyway.

Also, while none of the re packers I spoke with seemed dimwitted at all, I don't think it requires a PhD to do the job. Like most other boat jobs, I would rather do it myself and know that it was done to my satisfaction.

The main part that might be an issue is the auto inflate system. Using a scuba tank I think would require some major modifications to accomplish this. Getting parts for the installed system, if needed might be problematic but I would bet that a few calls to re packers would eventually turn up someone happy to sell you the parts.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:02   #42
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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(1) Ah; no after purchase service nor support

(2) and meets no standards of fitness for use (perhaps, because it has no use?) Just what we’re all seeking.

(3) Good idea.



The above edit was because I got confused!
(1) Correct (save for an optional service pack). I don't visit Avon when I have a leak in the Dink (although one can drop it off with a "proffessional" to fix it is not compulsory).

(2) I think you are confusing standards designed simply to meet "safety" requirements and standards of build, design and ease of use (no reason not in fact higher).

But I appreciate certification is a great marketing tool (should be after 30 odd years of flogging liferafts based on stuff like the Fastnet Race - that mainly about innapropriate boat design). But about as appropriate as selling tin hats to keep safe from the Soviets.

But (as said alreadt) not impossible for the design to be capable of certification (if re-packed at a service center). But that probably the MKII or a different model entirely........

(3) yeah, it will take a while to cash out my pension
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:29   #43
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

I'm all for it! Make it that James Bond version incl. bar & girl :-)

ciao!
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:58   #44
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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I'm all for it! Make it that James Bond version incl. bar & girl :-)

ciao!
Nick.
Now that is genius! Could be a lifesaver too. I remember reading Peter Freuchen's Book of the Eskimo. He said that whenever the Eskimo's rescued someone from the ice or the sea and hypothermia was an issue, they would pop the survivor under some furs with a couple of nubile young eskimo ladies. He claimed that the recovery rate was 100%!
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:03   #45
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pirate Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Hell.... everyone knows good exercise warms one up by circulating blood more efficiently...
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