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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a liferaft designed to be self-serviced
Yes 41 83.67%
No 4 8.16%
Maybe 4 8.16%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27-10-2011, 13:33   #16
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

This is very interesting. Perhaps there is a way to home-build a form of liferaft with readily available off-shelf elements?

You know, people built watermakers, sails, radar reflectors, why not a liferaft?

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Old 27-10-2011, 13:46   #17
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Why bother?

Why not assess existing liferafts as to their suitability for owner servicing.

The key parts don't seem to be that complex.

The main problem could be that manufacturers may not supply service items. Maybe look at "building" self service kits for existing liferafts.

If we were doing ourselves we may not be that happy with what's being supplied.
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:24   #18
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
This is very interesting. Perhaps there is a way to home-build a form of liferaft with readily available off-shelf elements?

You know, people built watermakers, sails, radar reflectors, why not a liferaft?

b.
Why not?? We build the boats, that carry the rafts, that save our $ss, that lived in the lazarette that Jack built.
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:25   #19
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
DOJ,
It seems to me that you are re-inventing the wheel
No, just making a round one

Quote:
Who says that a capable DIYer couldn't inspect his own Winslow (or whatever brand).
No one, but just like much else in the modern world the ability to self fix / service has been designed out - both for good reasons, laziness and simply to milk the service after market.......but how much better a Raft would be for someone wanting to DIY if it was designed to be DIYable? (I appreciate that most will want to rely on the "magic" performed by a service center - by someone taking a break from the deep fat fryer ).

When I was a kid there was a fella in a shop who fixed toys (admittedly a small shop, tucked down an alley - but as a kid that made it all the better ) I think Toys-R-Us got him in a drive by...........

......my thinking is that there are folk in the boat owning market who want to be and enjoy being self reliant. How big that market is is another thing

I figure if (an unamed company ) can get away with selling chocolate lunch anchors for so long, then room in the market for anything better than a Raft made of bricks

Quote:
If one is prepared to risk ones own life, based on ones confidence in ones ability, then go for it.
If I am prepared to do exactly that on my own boat (1000% more complicated than a glorified rubber ring) then why would I not want to do the same for own raft? Could even say would be crazy to give the task to a complete stranger.......(certainly the marketing dept will think so ).

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But don't give up David, Apple rehired Steve when things went bad.
Apple? Pah!, small beer compared to what "DOJ Rafts-R-Us" will become. Will be worth more than Greece and Italy combined. and already is

Rather annoyingly I do find out next week whether I have a bit more in common with Steve Jobs than would be conveniant. But, hey, sh#t happens..........
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:29   #20
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Re: A self service Liferaft design - interested?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Already I'm confused....
Too many big words being chucked about....
I'll stick to the dinghy.....

looked good but needs an umbrella for protection from the harsh sun
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:31   #21
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
No, just making a round one



No one, but just like much else in the modern world the ability to self fix / service has been designed out - both for good reasons, laziness and simply to milk the service after market.......but how much better a Raft would be for someone wanting to DIY if it was designed to be DIYable? (I appreciate that most will want to rely on the "magic" performed by a service center - by someone taking a break from the deep fat fryer ).

When I was a kid there was a fella in a shop who fixed toys (admittedly a small shop, tucked down an alley - but as a kid that made it all the better ) I think Toys-R-Us got him in a drive by...........

......my thinking is that there are folk in the boat owning market who want to be and enjoy being self reliant. How big that market is is another thing

I figure if (an unamed company ) can get away with selling chocolate lunch anchors for so long, then room in the market for anything better than a Raft made of bricks



If I am prepared to do exactly that on my own boat (1000% more complicated than a glorified rubber ring) then why would I not want to do the same for own raft? Could even say would be crazy to give the task to a complete stranger.......(certainly the marketing dept will think so ).



Apple? Pah!, small beer compared to what "DOJ Rafts-R-Us" will become. Will be worth more than Greece and Italy combined. and already is

Rather annoyingly I do find out next week whether I have a bit more in common with Steve Jobs than would be conveniant. But, hey, sh#t happens..........

That last line--I am sincerely hoping that you meen you just invented the d-Pod
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:37   #22
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Re: A self service Liferaft design - interested?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
You're proposing an attractive concept, that's just not practical. A liferaft is like a parachute. It's got to work right the first time, every time.

Here’s how Winslow service liferafts.
WINSLOW® Liferaft Company

How many of these steps will a typical owner be properly equipped to perform? Which would you eliminate? Would you be prepared to warrant that anything has actually been done, merely on the owner's word?
It is my understanding that "Most experienced skydivers do their own packing, and it takes 10 to 15 minutes to do the job." Quoted from this link. HowStuffWorks "Parachutes and Packing a Parachute" since life rafts are not required equipment can't someone certify they did it themselves? Enough of the nanny state.
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:39   #23
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
This is very interesting. Perhaps there is a way to home-build a form of liferaft with readily available off-shelf elements?

You know, people built watermakers, sails, radar reflectors, why not a liferaft?

b.
I'll pencil you in for half a dozen

Basic design won't be fundamentally different from other rafts (2 rubber rings and a tent ) so first stop would be to identify where the manufacturing of current liferafts has been sub-contracted to by the various brands / companies. Not quite "off the shelf", but not reinventing the wheel either ........but I take your point about the service parts being easily available for both ease of customer servicing and cheaper raft construction costs.
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:42   #24
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
That last line--I am sincerely hoping that you meen you just invented the d-Pod
I invented a bucket once (no Patent so still hush hush ).
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:51   #25
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Re: Why bother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
Why not assess existing liferafts as to their suitability for owner servicing.

The key parts don't seem to be that complex. - that would make a good T-shirt slogan

The main problem could be that manufacturers may not supply service items. Maybe look at "building" self service kits for existing liferafts.

If we were doing ourselves we may not be that happy with what's being supplied.
Apart from blowing any warranty period, would still face the fundamental problem of DIYing something that was not designed to be DIYed......and with a manufacturer who will stand up in court (with better lawyers than you ) and claim (with evidence) that anyone who DIY serviced their Liferaft was simply an accident waiting to happen.

Depending on how the design goes (and the money available ) no reason why the DOJ raft could not be both certified as a Liferaft (even if that requires a proffesional service to meet local regulations )..........or........DIYable (or both, 5 years DIY, enter a rally and need a stamp, get a "proffessional".....then unpack and check the job done ).

But all that somewhat down the road
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:52   #26
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

I certainly trust my own attention to detail more than any vendor when it comes to critical equipment. Being a "Mere" owner, if my life depends on it, I make damn sure the work is done correctly. Frankly, I could give a good flying roll on a doughnut what anyone else thinks about it.
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Old 27-10-2011, 15:05   #27
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Anybody got a set of dimensions for a two tube with canopy raft for 4 persons? Interested in overall size, tube diameter, canopy height, and ballast pocket size, number, and location.

Thanks,

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Old 27-10-2011, 15:37   #28
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

David-
"Anyone know the Chinese for Rubber Ring with Tent on top?"
帳篷頂部的橡膠圈

But of course, you'd probably have to go to China and move into the factory before you cold trust the product to be made the way you wanted it.

I suspect that you will never get a raft maker to admit it, but they could easily build a product targeted at owner-inspection and owner-maintenance. The obvious reason to never do such a thing, is that it would hurt their dealer (authorized repack) income, and any maker that hurts their dealer network is the worst kind of fool.

So sadly, ain't gonna happen, at least not from anyone currently in the business.

Although after a lot of back-burnering, I did get a Homer Simpson Moment (D'Oh!) and realized it would be fairly simple for anyone in the "rubber" business to make a superior product. Superior, in the sense of costing about the same thing, but easily maintained using existing technology and practices. The problem is...who do I see at Goodyear to pitch it to? Or Michelin, or...anyone except Hankook or the Chinese.
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Old 27-10-2011, 16:01   #29
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

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David-
"Anyone know the Chinese for Rubber Ring with Tent on top?"
帳篷頂部的橡膠圈
I bet that's like those tattoos given to Westerners in SE Asia, rather than some ancient & wise proverb instead it says something like "I like to suck my own cock" (Welcome to our newest visitors from Google land ).

Quote:
But of course, you'd probably have to go to China and move into the factory before you cold trust the product to be made the way you wanted it.
Lol! I am sure would be some "hiccups" along the way

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I suspect that you will never get a raft maker to admit it, but they could easily build a product targeted at owner-inspection and owner-maintenance. The obvious reason to never do such a thing, is that it would hurt their dealer (authorized repack) income, and any maker that hurts their dealer network is the worst kind of fool.

So sadly, ain't gonna happen, at least not from anyone currently in the business.
I agree, always too much invested in any status quo to want change. But change happens nonetheless.

Quote:
Although after a lot of back-burnering, I did get a Homer Simpson Moment (D'Oh!) and realized it would be fairly simple for anyone in the "rubber" business to make a superior product. Superior, in the sense of costing about the same thing, but easily maintained using existing technology and practices. The problem is...who do I see at Goodyear to pitch it to? Or Michelin, or...anyone except Hankook or the Chinese.
It's a low technology build, one of the keys is simply quality control. But that is not insurmountable. Not looking to build the best on the market, but not the worst either.
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Old 27-10-2011, 16:49   #30
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Re: A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ?

Quality control is not necessarily simple. Zodiac had their glued seams falling apart. Crewfit had gled inflation valves in PFDs literally falling out. The QC is easy--if oyu can get a trusted supply chain, as well as trusted workers.

Couple of years ago one of the business magazines was talking abouit the pros and cons of manufacturing in China. One of the companies they interviewed couldn't figure out how such good counterfeits of their product were coming on the market. Until they found out that their new Chinese factory, which was supposed to be working one day shift, was also being run by family of their local staff on a second night shift. Using all their equipment and tooling, and inferior counterfeited parts.
Zero overhead, nice concept, huh?

Chinese industry, US bankers...same morality problems, huh?

I's sooner skydive buck naked than let either one pack my parachute.
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