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Old 16-10-2015, 09:01   #46
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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there hasn't been an expensive boat reported stolen in Ontario since a Boston Whaler was stolen on its trailer in Halton Region in 2012.
Thats a pretty definitive statement. I wondered how you could be so sure when no one in the business has any idea.
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Old 16-10-2015, 09:19   #47
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

I'm not following where your going with this. You tried to use statistical information to discredit me. You were unable to produce statistics, so what now? Semantics? Do you have any evidence to suggest a crime ring is exporting 40+ foot yachts from marinas in Ontario exists? Do you even have a constructive argument to support that view point?

In my line of work an absence of any evidence generally suggests that no crime has occurred. I'm not in the insurance business which rely on statistics which speak to trends, not facts.

The evidence right now is that one boat, a 41' Sea Ray has been reported stolen from a marina in Kingston.

I am curious to see if more reports like this surface. If they do, we might have reason to suspect a crime ring, I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm just saying at this time there is inadequate evidence to convince me that's what happened to this one boat.

If you can find other reports, please share, I'm a curious guy, I'd like to see them.

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Old 16-10-2015, 09:39   #48
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
I'm not following where your going with this. You tried to use statistical information to discredit me. You were unable to produce statistics, so what now? Semantics? Do you have any evidence to suggest a crime ring is exporting 40+ foot yachts from marinas in Ontario exists? Do you even have a constructive argument to support that view point?

In my line of work an absence of any evidence generally suggests that no crime has occurred. I'm not in the insurance business which rely on statistics which speak to trends, not facts.

The evidence right now is that one boat, a 41' Sea Ray has been reported stolen from a marina in Kingston.

I am curious to see if more reports like this surface. If they do, we might have reason to suspect a crime ring, I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm just saying at this time there is inadequate evidence to convince me that's what happened to this one boat.

If you can find other reports, please share, I'm a curious guy, I'd like to see them.

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No where did I suggest that there was a "crime ring"..... your words
No where did I suggest there were any statistics. In fact I stated there is an absence of statistics and that is why I questioned your statement about there only being one stolen boat since 2012. I simply asked where you got that information since I know it to be incorrect.
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Old 16-10-2015, 09:48   #49
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

But you're unable or unwilling to provide evidence or statistics to support your claim. Because I am open to it.

One existing data base that exists and is available to the public is CPIC. If you know that I'm wrong, share a vessel name, HIN, license number or registration number.

I like registration numbers best because they're easily searchable on multiple data bases. But if you can provide any information of any description, I would happily accept it as evidence to support your claim.

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Old 16-10-2015, 09:48   #50
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

I'll have to dig up the link, but I read that 72% of statistics on internet forums are made up...
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Old 16-10-2015, 09:52   #51
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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But you're unable or unwilling to provide evidence or statistics to support your claim. Because I am open to it.

One existing data base that exists and is available to the public is CPIC. If you know that I'm wrong, share a vessel name, HIN, license number or registration number.

I like registration numbers best because they're easily searchable on multiple data bases. But if you can provide any information of any description, I would happily accept it as evidence to support your claim.

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In this article "Whats a HIN" on my website there are a couple of examples.

CPIC is not too bad now for ON series license numbers but databases for the older series license numbers are notoriously unreliable as it was a paper based system. Until very recently HIN/MIC's were not required on license forms and are still not required on Registered vessel forms. The entire system is haphazard.
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Old 16-10-2015, 10:14   #52
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

CPIC may not be perfect, but if a large and/or expensive yacht (as I specified) is stolen and doesn't find its way into the police reporting system, the owner isn't trying very hard to get it found.

Its essentially an unreported theft.

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Old 16-10-2015, 10:21   #53
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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CPIC may not be perfect, but if a large and/or expensive yacht (as I specified) is stolen and doesn't find its way into the police reporting system, the owner isn't trying very hard to get it found.

Its essentially an unreported theft.

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It's not that it is not reported it's that the many police and Transport Canada databases do not talk well to each other and much of it is still paperbased.
This data is not nearly as accurate or comprehensive as the uninitiated believe.
Very few police officers (OPP, RCMP, municipal etc. even Customs) know anything about stolen boats and show very little interest in learning. Until 2006 all license numbers were issued through regional offices on pieces of paper. When the filing cabinet got full that paper was moved to a damp basement never to be seen again. Our authorities are not nearly as sophisticated as you believe.
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Old 16-10-2015, 10:36   #54
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

I have sailed out of Toronto, for 50 years and have heard of 3 boat thefts. 1 from a mooring probably for debts another from a dock in a park which was a joy ride both found the next day. And the third, well that might have been my whaler! Boat recovered engine gone
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Old 16-10-2015, 10:48   #55
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

Sounds like there is a great untapped source of revenue for organized crime, get into the boat stealing biz, since no one is doing it and no one is following the stats.
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Old 16-10-2015, 22:38   #56
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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It's not that it is not reported it's that the many police and Transport Canada databases do not talk well to each other and much of it is still paperbased.
This data is not nearly as accurate or comprehensive as the uninitiated believe.
Very few police officers (OPP, RCMP, municipal etc. even Customs) know anything about stolen boats and show very little interest in learning. Until 2006 all license numbers were issued through regional offices on pieces of paper. When the filing cabinet got full that paper was moved to a damp basement never to be seen again. Our authorities are not nearly as sophisticated as you believe.
Maybe the authorities are more sophisticated than you believe, but aren't sharing their Intel with unregulated surveyors?

Do you think after meetings occur the RCMP and TC get together and say, "we better update that boat poker guy because we really care what he thinks"?

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Old 17-10-2015, 00:11   #57
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

Plenty of time for a coat of paint
Oops that was for messenger.
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Old 17-10-2015, 04:30   #58
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

Most reported stolen “boats” (in Ontario) are PWCs, and small craft.
Stolen Boats
Boat theft | Chatham Voice
Cops probe theft of 36-foot boat and trailer | Ottawa & Region | News | Ottawa S
BlackburnNews.com - OPP Investigate Stolen Boat
BlackburnNews.com - OPP Boat Stolen, Burned In Port Stanley Harbour
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Old 17-10-2015, 06:12   #59
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Maybe the authorities are more sophisticated than you believe, but aren't sharing their Intel with unregulated surveyors?

Do you think after meetings occur the RCMP and TC get together and say, "we better update that boat poker guy because we really care what he thinks"?

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Well if they are not sharing it with me I doubt they are sharing it with you so that makes your thorough research somewhat suspect does it not ? and that I believe was my original point, thanks for making it.
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Old 17-10-2015, 08:06   #60
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Re: 41' Searay Stolen from Downtown Kingston Marina

They are all in on it.
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