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Old 13-09-2013, 00:05   #31
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Re: Why AIS?

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Originally Posted by builder dan View Post
totally agree have been out with people who stare at screens all day it gives me the willys you cant beat the no 1 eyeball.
So I trust that you guys don't have GPS, or chartplotters, or radar, or depthsounders, or the rest of that dangerous, "false sense of security", stuff that is obviously not just useless, but dangerous too?
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Old 13-09-2013, 03:28   #32
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It is nice to be able to call a big ship by name.

It's even nicer when they call you by name.

Just last week had a lovely chat with the steamship authority ferry as we both transmitted woods hole.
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Old 13-09-2013, 04:29   #33
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Re: Why AIS?

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It's even nicer when they call you by name.
Its way way nicer when they adjust their course , 10 miles behind you cause they see you're a WAFI

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Old 13-09-2013, 04:46   #34
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Re: Why AIS?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
If your totally paranoid and obsessed with staring at screens spend the $$'s... otherwise do what us wrinklys do... look outside now n then...
Oh for gods sake, Phill, that must be the most stupid thing you've said in 11,000 posts!

Have you ever seen inside a car? Noticed instruments? Well when driving do you slam into walls because you are too dim witted to look out the windscreen?


When trolling adults try being intelligent.


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Old 13-09-2013, 05:46   #35
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pirate Re: Why AIS?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Oh for gods sake, Phill, that must be the most stupid thing you've said in 11,000 posts!

Have you ever seen inside a car? Noticed instruments? Well when driving do you slam into walls because you are too dim witted to look out the windscreen?


When trolling adults try being intelligent.


Mark
I'm sorry Mark... but having delivered boats with owners who get into a panic from information overload and confuse tracks/headings... then start screaming at me that we're being run down by ships that have past us... another who would have had a head on collision had I not popped on deck by chance... coz his screen did not tell him there was a 65ft ferro schooner 300 metre's dead ahead... and he was on deck on watch...
The amout of folk who get hypnotised by the so called 'All Seeing Eyes' at sea is unbelievable
I've crossed back and forth over the busiest shipping lanes for years pre GPS and AIS... and in dense fog and not been run down...
I have how ever been hit by a dickhead in a sailboat doing 6 kts in perfect visibility, calm sea's in broad daylight coz all 4 on board were down below trusting their screens..
Yes a depth sounder is a great tool... however I only use the digital numbers repeater S/D type log... not the fish finder with the pretty pictures... and I work with paper correlation..
GPS is a position/speed/heading basic HH unit.. also with paper... also carry a laptop with 'Nimble Navigator/OpenCPN which comes on for closing land or once every 24hrs... paper updates every 12hrs when inside 50 miles of the coast.. also practice the old ways... triangulating of shore marks for position and distance of the coast etc.
You may think I'm trolling... I'm just taking the piss outa the dorks who think if they have all this crap they're safe...
But thanks for your comments Dude...
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Old 13-09-2013, 06:22   #36
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Re: Why AIS?

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I've crossed back and forth over the busiest shipping lanes for years pre GPS and AIS... and in dense fog and not been run down...
Yet , phil , Yet. ( remember theres no fool like an .....)

Quote:
I'm just taking the piss outa the dorks who think if they have all this crap they're safe...
We do all know this here by now.....

SImply because there are idiots that cant sail, doesn't invalidate AIS or any other help. It just means there are idiots...


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Old 13-09-2013, 06:32   #37
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Re: Why AIS?

Of the 80-some odd boats in this year's Sail Indonesia Rally, only a handful don't transmit AIS information and from an unscientific survey that I conducted, 100% of those who don't wish they did. In the almost 20,000 miles we've covered in the last three years, we think that AIS is one of the most valuable pieces of safety equipment in our arsenal.

I know there are Luddites and curmudgeons who say, "Stick your head out the window!" but these were probably the same people who fought using seat belts and said, "Cigarette smoking hasn't killed me yet!". From my point of view, the more you know about what's out there, the safer you're likely to be.

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Old 13-09-2013, 06:32   #38
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pirate Re: Why AIS?

I skipped page two but "seeing" a big tow ahead around a bend is a good thing. Think I'll get one before heading down the ICW soon.
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Old 13-09-2013, 06:38   #39
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pirate Re: Why AIS?

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Originally Posted by BobnCamie View Post
Howdy all, been looking and have not found answer. Hope someone can help. Is AIS really needed? What percentage of boats out there actually have it? Use it? From what I get out of it, is somewhat like IFF on military vehicles. Wouldn't radar and radar reflector work just as well? We are just getting started outfitting our new (to us) boat for trip south next spring, and believe radar/reflector will be with us, so wouldn't the AIS system be somewhat redundant? Just a question that keeps coming up in my mind. Anyones thoughts? Thank, Bob
GBN... I was answering the OP... no it is NOT AN ESSENTIAL TOOL... it is an add on to all your other toys.
To my mind if you feel you NEED a radar... buy one... if you feel you NEED a bells and whistles depth finder with pretty picture of the bottom... buy one... if you feel you NEED SSB radio buy one... if you feel you NEED an AIS unit buy one...
However it does not in itself make you any safer.. and if you have not studied/mastered basic 'old fools' navigation it not only makes you a danger to yourself.. but others as well if you get hypnotised by then or when everything dies... and believe me it can... even on MarkJ's Bendi... or Kennomac's Oyster...
Everyone is busy justifying why they've got it... I merely stated you don't need it... but WTF do I know....
Mark... whats a car...???
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Old 13-09-2013, 06:54   #40
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Re: Why AIS?

I am almost with Boatman!

Our primary watch keeping tool is the visual inspection of the horizon every 15-20 minutes before we then correlate visual with the electronics. We never trust chart plotters outside the US and even in the US paper charts and visual always dominate.

However, a AIS transceiver is a game changer because it gives us advance notice of the closeness of the approach and having their 'name, rank and serial number' allows us to negotiate passings easily. It also forces then to acknowledge that we are a sailboat and they know our position and course. We negotiate at least 50 passings per year in our normal 5,000 miles of cruising. Occasionally we use their MMSI number to call their bridge directly.

98% of deck officers are polite, professional and happy to change course...The 2% always have Eastern European accents and we start the engine.

In the Caribbean and Bahamas chart plotters are for working out how far it it is to the next pub not for making entries. We see 2-3 boats a year parked on reefs where the chart plotter showed deep water.
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Old 13-09-2013, 07:06   #41
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Re: Why AIS?

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GBN... I was answering the OP... no it is NOT AN ESSENTIAL TOOL... it is an add on to all your other toys.
To my mind if you feel you NEED a radar... buy one... if you feel you NEED a bells and whistles depth finder with pretty picture of the bottom... buy one... if you feel you NEED SSB radio buy one... if you feel you NEED an AIS unit buy one...
However it does not in itself make you any safer.. and if you have not studied/mastered basic 'old fools' navigation it not only makes you a danger to yourself.. but others as well if you get hypnotised by then or when everything dies... and believe me it can... even on MarkJ's Bendi... or Kennomac's Oyster...
Everyone is busy justifying why they've got it... I merely stated you don't need it... but WTF do I know....
Mark... whats a car...???
As a fellow member of the OFC, I can sail without all the electronics if I have to. However, mastering the art of seamanship and navigation means using ALL the tools available to you. Yours eyes and ears are important, but if you augment them by using your chart plotter, radar, AIS, and depth sounder, you will be significantly safer than the Luddites.
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Old 13-09-2013, 07:13   #42
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Re: Why AIS?

I have both. Been using radar since I bought Persistence in 2003. Put AIS receive only in about a year ago. Both have distinct uses, but I am going down the Tenn-Tom this fall and AIS will be valuable in planning where to pass tows. Radar can't see around bends, but AIS can. With my mast antenna, I can see targets 38nm away. My radar will generally pick up a target several miles away. Radar has MARPHA which gives CPA and time to CPA, so does AIS. Both together work well to determine in advance where to pass. You still have to keep your head outside, but these tools give you much appreciated back-up data like speed and course track. Eyeballs are not as good at that aspect.
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Old 13-09-2013, 07:16   #43
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Re: Why AIS?

Aaahh!! I remember running from Cuxhaven to Southampton in a vicious confused sea on a dark night (I am not making this up as we had waited six days for a weather window.) BTW, we helmed on our shifts as one may as well be at the helm doing something rather than getting distracted.

Anyway, our AIS was invaluable that night as the commercial traffic was high and the paranoia was maxed out on every ship encounter. The night was black as ink. The AIS was heaven sent that night and paid for itself just on my shift alone.

It is way better than staring at running lights on multiple freighters and commercial traffic and trying to sort out what is going on. How many times do you stare at running lights wondering if they are 1000 meters or 20,000 meters off?

Strategically, the AIS is an additional arrow in the quiver.

Consider that if only half the traffic has AIS then it is still 50% less traffic that one has to worry about. You now know at least what half of the traffic is doing. You just reduced your uncertainty and increased your safety margin by 50% and that is significant on some of the more heavily populated commercial routes. In the future I believe it will be as ubiquitous as VHF.
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Old 13-09-2013, 07:32   #44
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pirate Re: Why AIS?

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As a fellow member of the OFC, I can sail without all the electronics if I have to. However, mastering the art of seamanship and navigation means using ALL the tools available to you. Yours eyes and ears are important, but if you augment them by using your chart plotter, radar, AIS, and depth sounder, you will be significantly safer than the Luddites.
According to the CF consensus I would also be safer if I sailed on a boat over 40ft... with all the bells and whistles... and an EPIRB so I can jump off if it gets a bit bouncy...
However... there are a handful of members who don't have $$$'sxK and gold plated pensions to play with...
We sail with the basics because that's all we have and can afford... or choose to sail.... trouble is when we speak up we get jumped on and called 'Luddites' and a danger to others at sea...
You NEED a good chart (up to date)... you NEED a good means of depth sounding.. you NEED a good way to know your position...
The rest is toys for the boys... lazy sailing, and/or props for the insecure...
How long before cockpits are obsolete and there's that voice in the salon saying... " Turn right in 200 metres at the next reef... continue 700 metres to the stbd marker bear left 10 degrees rudder to 180..." never see roadmaps in cars these days..
But then again... maybe the forums out grown me and my pocket... sorry if I'm an embarrassment....

NOT...
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Old 13-09-2013, 07:36   #45
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Re: Why AIS?

I crossed with my boat the Atlantic in May/June 2011 from Europe via the Azores to Nova Scotia/Canada and got dis-masted while we were still some 600 miles out from the Canadian coast. I was able to rig an antenna and connect it to my AIS and could see merchant ships again on my chartplotter which I could call by name on my hand held VHF then. Strange that the range with the handheld was better then with my fixed VHF.

Via my Spot messenger I made contact with my family and they did get in contact with the coastguard which asked a Tanker enroute to Europe to check on us. We were meet by the BW Hudson which provided us with 400 liters of additional diesel and 9 days later we arrived finally in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I am sure that without my AIS it would have been more difficult to handle this. I could see ships around me on my chart plotter way before I could make contact via VHF so I could alter my course to intercept them.
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