Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: Keeping celestial nav skills alive
Never learned, too many sight reduction books to haul around 12 26.67%
Learned, but no longer practice 17 37.78%
Learned, practice every chance for that perfect pin wheel 16 35.56%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-02-2012, 12:27   #61
Registered User
 
lolarose's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 128
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric. View Post

I think you must have missed the part where I said it was WEST not east. But thanks for the pedantic response.

Eric
.....from your web site before you changed it.

5.This result is your Longitude. Note that it is East because your local apparent noon (LAN) is later than noon at MP.


if your local noon is later than greenwich noon it is always W (14:45 W, 9:45 E)

and EoT for 27/11/2004 was 12min 34sec

but does not matter. sorry if i upset you

regardin nautical almanac i am using this web site.

Download
__________________

__________________
lolarose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 12:48   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 53
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Personally i like the cn and dr just cause every once in awhile i can turn everything off on passage and pretend i am sailing during the golden age when it was harder and there were less boats and less marinas etc

Edit: i did 4 landfalls solely with cn and dr; puerto corinto nicuaragua, puntarenas and golfito bay costa rica, and panama canal
Do you still use it or was that back in the '90s? The only people I've found that have any real interest/experience with it are people who sailed pre-GPS or when GPS's were over $1K.

I really wanted to make a portable Nautical Almanac (multi-platform) and I've got something that is quite good and includes a star database. But as I started working on generating the star charts, planet visibility diagrams, and other supporting material I realized the work involved was going to be too involved to just give it away. So I started asking around and no one was very interested anyway even for free! It was a great learning experience.
__________________

__________________
Eric. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 13:12   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 53
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

lolarose, Thanks again for catching that it was West and not East as I mentioned in my reply to you but you might have missed it. It was quite an obvious error when I re-read the example. I'm glad you took enough interest to even look at it, most people don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolarose View Post
and EoT for 27/11/2004 was 12min 34sec
As I'm sure you know EoT is always changing. I don't know at what time
NavSoft computed their EoT for that day. Many Almanac's choose either 0:00 or 12:00 (or both). I can tell you that the EoT in my tables correspond to my Reed's Almanac (UNSO approved) and is computed at the time of MP for the Sun. I am using an approximation and there are several accepted ways to approximate the two effects that create the EoT errors.
__________________
Eric. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 13:55   #64
Registered User
 
Cpt Pat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Boat: Pearson Ariel, 26 feet
Posts: 158
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
never leaned and don't see any reason to do so

this isn't the 1600s anymore

maybe if a sextant was like $50 I would learn but as long as a back up GPS is less than a sextant why bother other than to say you are all salty
Suggested reading:

U.S. Department of Transportation. Office of the Secretary ... Volpe Report on GPS Vulnerability
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/prog...t/gpstrans.pdf

Current Projects: GPS Spoofing - Vulnerability Assessment Team - Argonne National Laboratory

Maritime Jamming Trial Shows GPS Vulnerabilities | GPS World

Cornell University Researchers Demonstrated GPS Vulnerability with Spoofing Activities My Digital Life

Captured U.S. stealthy drone was hijacked exploiting GPS vulnerability. The Aviationist

There's a reason why the US Navy still takes sightings with a sextant.

We are approaching the period of maximum solar sunspot activity, which follows an 11 year cycle. If the sun tosses us a coronal mass ejection like the Carrington Event that occurred before, we could experience an extended period of GPS disruption: A Super Solar Flare - NASA Science
__________________
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 14:29   #65
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric.
Do you still use it or was that back in the '90s? The only people I've found that have any real interest/experience with it are people who sailed pre-GPS or when GPS's were over $1K..
I do still use it but as i travel with two small children finding spare energy to offer somethng "nonessential" is limited. 93 was the last time i did a passage of any substance without electronics. I do at least one set of star shots every passage, weather permitting, but mostly break it out for sun shots or lazy noon sites.

I would fit the above demographic you mention as well...
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 15:02   #66
Registered User
 
lolarose's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 128
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric. View Post
lolarose, Thanks again for catching that it was West and not East as I mentioned in my reply to you but you might have missed it. It was quite an obvious error when I re-read the example. I'm glad you took enough interest to even look at it, most people don't.


As I'm sure you know EoT is always changing. I don't know at what time
NavSoft computed their EoT for that day. Many Almanac's choose either 0:00 or 12:00 (or both). I can tell you that the EoT in my tables correspond to my Reed's Almanac (UNSO approved) and is computed at the time of MP for the Sun. I am using an approximation and there are several accepted ways to approximate the two effects that create the EoT errors.
eric, can you tell mi which almanac you have bin using at that ime. i have 2004 almanac and my latitude is N 3455.0'.

for example. my SD is 16'.2 and alt.corr. 1'.5, dec is 2115.5'

and this is your calculation ......the latitude is N 3506.3'.

thanks
__________________
lolarose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-02-2012, 17:17   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Key Largo, FL
Boat: Morgan 41 OI
Posts: 55
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Geoduck, My bad, spelling britework, The art of maintaining the apperance of your vessel. Try doing it better than doing nothing. IMHO
__________________
C4 King Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 12:21   #68
Registered User
 
Viilettaja's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
My 70 year old dad did this CN course (7 hours in the final test) and passed it. He cant even get into the boat anymore. There is the respect of seaman ship! People who rely on GPS and have no clue on navigation are asking for it. Sea is to be respected and knowledge in this mater is respect.

As my brother is a coast guard he can tell you some sad stories about GPS navigation when it fails. Hope its not dark or foggy when it happens.
__________________
Viilettaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 14:56   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Key Largo, FL
Boat: Morgan 41 OI
Posts: 55
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viilettaja View Post
My 70 year old dad did this CN course (7 hours in the final test) and passed it. He cant even get into the boat anymore. There is the respect of seaman ship! People who rely on GPS and have no clue on navigation are asking for it. Sea is to be respected and knowledge in this mater is respect.

As my brother is a coast guard he can tell you some sad stories about GPS navigation when it fails. Hope its not dark or foggy when it happens.

Amen to that!
__________________
C4 King Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 16:10   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 120
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viilettaja View Post
People who rely on GPS and have no clue on navigation are asking for it. Sea is to be respected and knowledge in this mater is respect.

As my brother is a coast guard he can tell you some sad stories about GPS navigation when it fails. Hope its not dark or foggy when it happens.
Be careful. There are those who lurk about CF who will go out of their way to vilify you for such heretical thoughts...The mantra is that you are a fool to continue with such archaic trivia. Get with program, hit the on button and fire up your multi-thousand dollar integrated electronic suite!!! The equipment has all this going to sea in little boats stuff solved now. And don't forget to sport that too tight speedo while slurping down those salty margaritas!

Lin Pardey said it best earlier in the thread, deriving your position is all part of the experience, and then seeing that landfall burn away any doubts you may have carried for days, or even weeks, about just exactly where on this big world you really are. As they say, that experience is priceless.

Now, let me be quick to say that I am the proud owner of a chart plotter (NMEA0183 integrated BTW). The above was not a call to get rid of all electronics off the boat! Just sayin' it again: No matter the tools you use, ALWAYS stay connected to the basics.

If that box starts spitting and hissing like a rabid cat before suddenly going dark, is the DR plot in your head?

In that regard Ms. Pardey also buttresses a point I've been trying to make here at CF for a couple of months now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin Pardey View Post
Did the GPS make us feel safer? In a small way it did the opposite. Now we had to remind ourselves that the ease of finding our position could lure us into cutting corners as we passed headlands or reefs, or entering new anchorages at night rather than heaving to to wait for daylight.
Those Sirens sing a right subtle tune...

But anyway, just got some grist for the Kindle by picking Joshua Slocum's "Sailing Alone Around The World"

At the end of chapter XI, he describes his navigation out to the Marquesas:

I sailed with a free wind day after day, marking the position of my ship on the chart with considerable precision;but his was down by intuition, I think, more than by slavish calculations. For one whole month my vessel held her course true; I had not, the while, so much as a light in the binnacle. The Southern Cross I saw every night abeam. The sun every morning came up astern, every evening it went down ahead. I wished for no other compass to guide me, for these were true.

Read it all. At less than 3 bucks its a good deal if you are looking for something to put on the Kindle...
__________________
sidmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 22:24   #71
Registered User
 
Viilettaja's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidmon

Now, let me be quick to say that I am the proud owner of a chart plotter (NMEA0183 integrated BTW). The above was not a call to get rid of all electronics off the boat! Just sayin' it again: No matter the tools you use, ALWAYS stay connected to the basics.

If that box starts spitting and hissing like a rabid cat before suddenly going dark, is the DR plot in your head?

At the end of chapter XI, he describes his navigation out to the Marquesas:

I sailed with a free wind day after day, marking the position of my ship on the chart with considerable precision;but his was down by intuition, I think, more than by slavish calculations. For one whole month my vessel held her course true; I had not, the while, so much as a light in the binnacle. The Southern Cross I saw every night abeam. The sun every morning came up astern, every evening it went down ahead. I wished for no other compass to guide me, for these were true.

Read it all. At less than 3 bucks its a good deal if you are looking for something to put on the Kindle...
You are correct. I also have GPS which I turn on if I suspect some markings have floated a way in the sea. It is nice tool to give you comfirmation in these situations. I think the worst thing people do now is that they dont even have chart in the boat.

Tell you the truth 8 hour day sailing would be little boring without navigation
__________________
Viilettaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 00:55   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,434
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

Just this afternoon I found my old Celestial book, after 20 years of storage. I had previously posted that it was titled (Ten Easy Steps to Celestial Navigation). That was the sub title. The actual title was SELF-TAUGHT NAVIGATION, by Robert Kittredge. It makes CF silly simple. It taught you everything you needed to do Sun, Stars, Moon, and planets in a 1/4 inch thick book. There was no BS and nothing that wasnt needed. It has been almost 40 years since I learned and 20 years since I have used CF, so I will have to dust off my brain cells and get to it.____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 01:53   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 617
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

I bought a new sextant, and a few books. Intend to teach myself (like everything else) when I really need to.
Used one in the past for coastal (horizontal) - reckon its worth it just for that use.
But, horizontal is probably about 2% of its potential/knowledge required for celestial.
I am also planning to get captain's license, and become proficient with SSB - lot of dust on these books..
__________________
AllezCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 09:42   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,434
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

My brain must have been really dusty when I put CF in my last post, instead of CN. In the box that I found my books in, I also found an old video by William F Buckly that was supposed to teach you CN. I remember it as the best sleeping aid a sailor could have.______Grant.
__________________
gjordan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 09:51   #75
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ?

The "new and improved" version of this thread is here The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll if anyone is interested.
__________________

__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
celestial navigation, navigation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll deckofficer Navigation 317 24-04-2015 08:06
Video Link - Still Trying to Diagnose Squeal in Forward Northeaster Propellers & Drive Systems 42 20-06-2014 01:12
Who Still Practices Celestial Navigation ? deckofficer Navigation 75 03-04-2012 11:06
CF's New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll deckofficer Cruising News & Events 0 13-02-2012 16:09
Roll Call- Who is from the Tampa Bay area? Seafarer24 Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 11-02-2012 03:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.