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Old 25-09-2016, 12:12   #61
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
By answering this, I'm committing the sin of second guessing another skipper's decision to abandon. Bad, bad.


But . . .

1. I have like 100 AAA batteries for the handheld VHF, plus a solar charger for the rechargeable battery. The AAA batteries are in date and vacuum sealed. There is no f&&&& way I would ever be without VHF communications even if I lost power.

2. I have multiple ways of keeping power on. I clean my fuel tanks every two years. I have a case of spare Racor filters on board. FFS, I have a jerry can of clean emergency diesel fuel, for a real SHTF situation, plus spare fuel hose, pump, etc. I have three completely separated battery banks, any one of which can start either engine, full electrical kit, spare heavy cabling, jumper cables, spare starters, etc., etc., etc. Chances of both generator and main engine going down on my boat is vanishingly small, and either one keeps the boat fully supplied with power.

3. I have multiple (3x) alternate headsails on board, multiple spare halyards, and miles of spare rope. One ripped sail, broken halyard, etc. is not going to disable the vessel. Even two ripped sails won't do it.

And I don't even cross oceans -- yet. This is my setup for being a couple hundred miles offshore for only less than a week at a time.



They were, by the way, not 70 miles, but 35 miles (!) from Bermuda. Already within range of the fixed VHF set.


Of course it would be arrogant to say "I could never happen to me", and saying that would surely anger Neptune and bring down his vengeance, like it did on Rebel Cause. But FFS, I surely hope I would have gotten that boat into Bermuda, scared crew or not.

In my experience, by the way, the crew is never scared, if the skipper has the matter in hand and is fighting the "cascade of failures" in a calm and systematic way. If I'm ever in a "cascade of failures" situation, I surely hope I will keep on fighting as long as the boat is floating and not on fire, and I hope the crew will follow and support me.
I've been in a cascade which included an engine fire, I got the boat back in under sail complete with the argumentative drunken fool onboard. It wasn't pretty. The best you can do is "surely hope" and keep having backup plans. I've had scared people onboard and it didn't make a bit of difference if I had the matter in hand. We have them go below where it's quiet, so they're not a distraction.

Re reading your post, it appears that you wouldn't have difficulty getting YOUR boat to Bermuda, but my question was really how would you have gotten THAT SWAN to Bermuda safely in the same conditions with the same failures? And I'm still waiting find out how you would heave to on a Swan 48 without a jib.
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:26   #62
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
. . . Re reading your post, it appears that you wouldn't have difficulty getting YOUR boat to Bermuda, but my question was really how would you have gotten THAT SWAN to Bermuda safely in the same conditions with the same failures? And I'm still waiting find out how you would heave to on a Swan 48 without a jib.
The answer is that going out into the N Atlantic, in winter FFS, I would not be without a spare jib or staysail. Spare batteries, filters, tools, etc. On any boat, not just my own. Preparing the boat to go to sea is an elementary question of seamanship.


But even on THAT boat in THAT state of preparation -- you CAN heave to without a jib. Bit tricky, but can be done. I've practiced it! Because I have a self-tacking staysail which doubles as storm jib. Can't be backwinded without going to the foredeck, so we worked out a procedure for heaving to under storm canvas.

In the worst case, lie ahull. VHF comms -- don't run the last battery all the way down, when you realize you are running out of power. Get an escort, or a tow.
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:32   #63
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The answer is that going out into the N Atlantic, in winter FFS, I would not be without a spare jib or staysail. Spare batteries, filters, tools, etc. On any boat, not just my own. Preparing the boat to go to sea is an elementary question of seamanship.


But even on THAT boat in THAT state of preparation -- you CAN heave to without a jib. Bit tricky, but can be done. In the worst case, lie ahull. VHF comms -- don't run the last battery all the way down, when you realize you are running out of power. Get an escort, or a tow.
I believe the guy was probably expecting some sort of tow, probably didn't realize he'd be abandoning ship. But who knows?

Like I wrote earlier, I never second guess these situations, it can happen to anyone no matter what the level of preparedness, and I certainly wouldn't find pleasure (like some ) in someone else's misfortune.

Now back to the thread.
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:32   #64
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pirate Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Dockhead.. there were 2 main problems they could have resolved fairly straightforwardly and one of those would have resolved the electrical problem.. if they had the standard charging system.. and assuming they had not flattened the engine battery.. which they made no mention of in their tale afterwards.
The cooker/heating could have been restored by bypassing the solenoid.. a simple matter.. the owner said he considered it but decided not to.
The fuel could have been drained 4 litres at a time and filtered into the dingy fuel tank (they had a new dinghy and O/B so would have had a tank.. drill a hole in the filler cap for the return and connect the fuel tube direct to the engine fuel pump using the bulb to prime.. this way they would have had 10 - 25L or at least 3hrs running time before refill while engine was still running.
Once the engine is running you have power for your systems.
These are all things I've had to improvise in varying conditions in the Atlantic/Pacific and med on various deliveries.. A Bruce Roberts 54, Hunter 37c, America's Cup 12m, etc, etc.. on one, a Garcia 45 owner assist we had 6 spare fuel filters which came into use up the English Channel and Thames Estuary and up into Chatham.. every hour the engine would die and I would heave to with main while owner changed over filters.. then of we'd go again.. he'd knock the crap out of the one just removed and keep it ready for the next switch.. we were down to 1 good filter by the time we got into the river.. this was in 7 gusting 8.. and short sea's..
As to the type of boat.. Oyster, Swan.. who cares.. I did remember the name tho.. the sinking Oyster was of Spain now I think on it.. but at my age black holes can be expected..
But one has to be a bodge artist..

PS; Now we'll likely get a hair split on the size of Oyster..
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:45   #65
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Boatman,

The only thing you got right was the boat's name.
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:49   #66
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pirate Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Boatman,

The only thing you got right was the boat's name.

Also how to fix the problems.. so don't fret luvie..
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Old 25-09-2016, 13:17   #67
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
. . . Like I wrote earlier, I never second guess these situations, it can happen to anyone no matter what the level of preparedness, and I certainly wouldn't find pleasure (like some ) in someone else's misfortune.. . .
That is the correct attitude to such a situation. Good for you Kenomac. I apologize to the readers of this thread, for my lapse. Just couldn't stop myself . . .
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Old 25-09-2016, 13:25   #68
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Dockhead.. there were 2 main problems they could have resolved fairly straightforwardly and one of those would have resolved the electrical problem.. if they had the standard charging system.. and assuming they had not flattened the engine battery.. which they made no mention of in their tale afterwards.
The cooker/heating could have been restored by bypassing the solenoid.. a simple matter.. the owner said he considered it but decided not to.
The fuel could have been drained 4 litres at a time and filtered into the dingy fuel tank (they had a new dinghy and O/B so would have had a tank.. drill a hole in the filler cap for the return and connect the fuel tube direct to the engine fuel pump using the bulb to prime.. this way they would have had 10 - 25L or at least 3hrs running time before refill while engine was still running.
Once the engine is running you have power for your systems.
These are all things I've had to improvise in varying conditions in the Atlantic/Pacific and med on various deliveries.. A Bruce Roberts 54, Hunter 37c, America's Cup 12m, etc, etc.. on one, a Garcia 45 owner assist we had 6 spare fuel filters which came into use up the English Channel and Thames Estuary and up into Chatham.. every hour the engine would die and I would heave to with main while owner changed over filters.. then of we'd go again.. he'd knock the crap out of the one just removed and keep it ready for the next switch.. we were down to 1 good filter by the time we got into the river.. this was in 7 gusting 8.. and short sea's..
As to the type of boat.. Oyster, Swan.. who cares.. I did remember the name tho.. the sinking Oyster was of Spain now I think on it.. but at my age black holes can be expected..
But one has to be a bodge artist.. :


Being a Bodge Artist is an essential skill on an ocean-going cruising boat.

You can't call an engineer out there, and you can't order parts. Nevertheless you have to keep the machinery working, come what may. If the systems go down, and you can't get them going again, you've got big problems.

It's why I do virtually all my own work, even on the (rare) occasions when I have the money to hire professionals. You really can't be comfortable out there if you have not crawled a mile in your bilges, don't know how to fix any possible failure.
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Old 25-09-2016, 16:08   #69
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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......................
........................ You really can't be comfortable out there if you have not crawled a mile in your bilges, don't know how to fix any possible failure.
Some time spent crawling in my bilge allowed me to make this diagram of my hydraulic system..



This "bilge crawling" is very rewarding. This page provides me more secure knowledge than any manuals for the components of the system. Bilge time is very rewarding!
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Old 26-12-2016, 07:30   #70
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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Boatman,

The only thing you got right was the boat's name.
What Boatman said about the problems was correct.
They were not difficult problems.

Actually, this was not the first time this boat had been in trouble.... a couple of years before, it had been in a storm and had water well over the cabin sole.

Being able to fix and bodge are important skills, you could learn something from Boatman instead of attacking him.
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Old 26-12-2016, 07:44   #71
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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What Boatman said about the problems was correct.
They were not difficult problems.

Actually, this was not the first time this boat had been in trouble.... a couple of years before, it had been in a storm and had water well over the cabin sole.

Being able to fix and bodge are important skills, you could learn something from Boatman instead of attacking him.
And maybe you should first read the entire discussion before trying to stir up an argument on an old dead thread.
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Old 26-12-2016, 08:37   #72
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

I keep it simple: Two Garmin 5208 plotters networked together and the Garmin depth sounder. I plot my trips ahead of time with HomePort (software) and transfer them to the plotter.
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Old 21-04-2017, 04:17   #73
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

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And maybe you should first read the entire discussion before trying to stir up an argument on an old dead thread.
Really, What part did I get wrong? I don't understand.
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Old 21-04-2017, 04:35   #74
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pirate Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
What Boatman said about the problems was correct.
They were not difficult problems.

Actually, this was not the first time this boat had been in trouble.... a couple of years before, it had been in a storm and had water well over the cabin sole.

Being able to fix and bodge are important skills, you could learn something from Boatman instead of attacking him.
Be gentle with him Fuss.. its one of the few pleasures left in his life..
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Old 21-04-2017, 17:15   #75
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Re: What's Your Actual Nav. Setup?

unfortunately 'bodging' is something you only learn from experience - my favorite personal fail - several hundreds of dollars and a few weeks of anxiety because i didnt realise my gearbox had separate forward and reverse clutchplates - so i couldnt go forward but if i'd thought of it or tried it, i could have gotten hull speed in reverse...#!^&**!!!!
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