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Old 26-07-2014, 20:24   #76
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

Forget about when GPS goes down, I watched a doco on black holes last night…………..were all stuffed!
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Old 26-07-2014, 21:32   #77
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

no, seriously, this happened to me the other day - I dropped my GPS into the water and it just stopped working. After i recovered from my panic I nipped over in the dinghy and asked a guy on the wharf where I was. Luckily, he knew so I got the boat pointed in the right direction and scurried back to my mooring. Wont go out now til the GPS is fixed. Whew!
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Old 26-07-2014, 21:44   #78
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What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post

Thousands of civilian agencies use it for law enforcement and emergency purposes. Commercial aircraft use it now, although not dependent on it at this point in time.
Yes, it's unlikely to go down in coastal waters off the US but I was in the Bay of Bengal when the 2nd gulf war started and the GPS experience "an unplanned regional outage" :0

And it's not just the tin foiled hat folks who are worried... Some respected folks are asking the question too:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2014/0...m_jong-un.html


And if carrying a sextant aboard your vessel flags you as a crazy anarchist then I suppose every navy and merchant marine captain needs to be institutionalized.



John Konrad
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Old 26-07-2014, 21:47   #79
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

I'll switch to GLONASS.
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Old 26-07-2014, 21:49   #80
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

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Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
no, seriously, this happened to me the other day - I dropped my GPS into the water and it just stopped working. After i recovered from my panic I nipped over in the dinghy and asked a guy on the wharf where I was. Luckily, he knew so I got the boat pointed in the right direction and scurried back to my mooring. Wont go out now til the GPS is fixed. Whew!
What?!?

You bought a non waterproof GPS?? Next you'll be telling me you bought a sat phone with a bad SIM card! Will the horrors never end!!
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Old 26-07-2014, 22:16   #81
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

The most unconventional fix we ever did was to cross the smell of white island volcano (approx 30 miles to windward) using the wind direction, with a crude RDF fix using a transistor radio and a hand bearing compass of tauranga AM radio. Very crude, but with DR it got us where we wanted to go. This was before GPS, but shortly after we got a old transit SATNAV. Where there is a will there is a way! Solar flare is the most likely threat, and then being ashore wont be much fun either.

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Old 26-07-2014, 22:30   #82
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Re: What will happen to you when gps goes down

d design,
I suspect this is just your way of getting a lot of folks riled-up....
But, sorry to disappoint....this really isn't that big of an issue for most...

1)
--- Yes, just about everyone does use GPS as their primary position fixing source....
And while most (myself included) have many back-up GPS units and separate power sources/supplies for them, should the GPS and GLONASS satellite constellations fail (VERY unlikely) and/or the GPS signals jammed (possible in small geographic locations).....
Most coastal sailors should be okay (as they can do coastal piloting and DR, taking bearings accordingly, whether visual and/or radio bearings...)
And even most offshore sailors will still be okay (as even without a sextant/almanac/tables, most offshore sailors will have the positions either plotted on a paper charts and/or written in their log, etc. so they can still do DR, and reach the other side of the ocean and/or find land/islands....)

--- And FYI I thought you may want to know that most offshore sailors do NOT rely on chartplotters, PC's, iPads, etc...(the internet postings of a few, notwithstanding!!)
Coastal sailors, day sailors, bay sailors....yes, there are many that use iPad's, etc. as their primary charting/plotting source, etc...
But, not offshore sailors....(again, no matter what 'ya read on-line....most offshore sailors do NOT rely on such products for navigation...




2) My direct answers, specific to your question...

With one difference, I do the same / have done the same, as Ann does, for many decades....(and yes, I started decades before GPS was launched...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
As it happens, we carry paper charts, sextant, and can plot possies; also, we can do coastal piloting. So, the situation is aggravating, but not hysterical. Also have spare GPSes,. having backups for your backups is not a bad deal. In the old days, we have run DRs. For far too long, given overcast skies.

Ann
The only difference is my paper charts are my primary charting w/ GPS fixes plotted regularly, on paper charts...(along with a running DR log, as a "comparison"... to see how good I am on predicting avg. COG, current set/drift, etc..)
My Raymarine E-series plotters and Navionics charts are nice to look at, but are secondary...

An accurate, deviated compass....a wrist watch...and some paper charts will still get you to where you're going!!




3) And, Wotname, for clarity....the entire Omega system has been off-the-air for over a decade now (mid-late 90's, I think)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Guess I will fire up the VLF / Omega long range nav unit and plot the fix on paper. This should keep working until the big boys stop talking to submarines .
I assume you know that....but just wanted everyone to be aware....


EDIT:::
I started this posting >12 hours ago....and now there are 6 pages!!!
Goodness, you guys are certainly social / verbose today!!
Oh, well....my answers still stand!!


I hope this answers your questions / adds something to your discussion..

Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 26-07-2014, 22:45   #83
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

We actually went sailing one day for 5 hours and didn't turn on the GPS. It's OK I made it out alive..

We released a pigeon and followed its direction to land...
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Old 26-07-2014, 23:04   #84
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Re: What will happen to you when gps goes down

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Nah. Killing a GPS satellite isn't that easy. And you'd have to kill lots of them.
No. You'd only have to kill one.

It's starting to be remarkable that they haven't all gone down.
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Old 26-07-2014, 23:07   #85
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

Wow so many replies!

To me I find traditional navigation much more fun than instant position from gps, its too easy! . Traditional navigation exercises my brain and keeps things interesting. Its a nice feeling not relying on the US military for knowing were I am. But hay, different strokes for different folks.
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Old 27-07-2014, 01:29   #86
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

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Originally Posted by d design View Post
Wow so many replies!

To me I find traditional navigation much more fun than instant position from gps, its too easy! . Traditional navigation exercises my brain and keeps things interesting. Its a nice feeling not relying on the US military for knowing were I am. But hay, different strokes for different folks.
+1 As good a reason as any to use traditional nav. I feel priviledged to have worked at sea before GPS and learn to navigate the old ways properly. The cadets that came through a few years latter really missed out on that as GPS had become more establised aboard the ships. I doubt i'll ever have to use it in earnest but its still forms a good set of background skills to have when using GPS and Echarts.

One of the more fun trips offshore included the last 1000 miles as celestial only to qualify for the RYA ocean. It was very satisfying, and this reason on it's own is good enough to justify owning a sextant in my opinion. As is taking a three point fix with radar or a hand bearing compass, and getting a nice tight cocked hat.

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Old 27-07-2014, 01:41   #87
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

Ben,

Don't forget the joy of starsights!

Ann
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Old 27-07-2014, 01:51   #88
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
+1 As good a reason as any to use traditional nav. I feel priviledged to have worked at sea before GPS and learn to navigate the old ways properly. The cadets that came through a few years latter really missed out on that as GPS had become more establised aboard the ships. I doubt i'll ever have to use it in earnest but its still forms a good set of background skills to have when using GPS and Echarts.

One of the more fun trips offshore included the last 1000 miles as celestial only to qualify for the RYA ocean. It was very satisfying, and this reason on it's own is good enough to justify owning a sextant in my opinion. As is taking a three point fix with radar or a hand bearing compass, and getting a nice tight cocked hat.

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To this day if you want to become a Master Mariner (Unlimited) in Australia you will still have to do the full Navigational course, including CN...and trust me, the Nav for the RYA Yachtmaster is a breeze compared to the Master Unlimited...

Ask me how I know...
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Old 27-07-2014, 01:55   #89
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Yes, you're wrong. LOL

They shut down the Omega transmissions and destroyed several of the transmitters. Some of the transmitters are still used for VLF comms for subs, but your Omega receiver is not an RDF system, it used time delay calculations for a very rough, 4 mi accuracy fix.

Your Omega receiver is essentially an anchor, or at best a space heater. How good of one is food for a different thread.
Sorry to bang on about this but why won't my LNR use the remaining existing VLF transmitters just like it did before they shut down the Omega transmitters

And a 4 nm fix will get me close enough to smell the home brew wafting downwind from Mark J

Quote:
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Ben,

Don't forget the joy of starsights!

Ann
Yes +1
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Old 27-07-2014, 02:40   #90
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Re: What will Happen to you when GPS goes Down

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Sorry to bang on about this but why won't my LNR use the remaining existing VLF transmitters just like it did before they shut down the Omega transmitters

And a 4 nm fix will get me close enough to smell the home brew wafting downwind from Mark J


Yes +1
To keep it simple, the Omega transmitters transmitted a special signal that the receiver would then receive and calculate the time delay from each of at least 3 receivers. Those signals are no longer being transmitted. There is no signal for your receiver to receive. That's it.

Just because a transmitter is still in existence doesn't mean it's still transmitting. Look it up in Wikipedia if you have any further questions.
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