Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-05-2013, 08:10   #91
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic sea dog View Post
Obviously I would have a compass onboard! I would also have a passage plan, a detailed understanding of the current forecasts for the area I was sailing in as well as noting what the tide would be doing, imray charts, pilot books, a vhf radio, just like anyone on a yacht.
My question is what sort of chartplotter can be installed on an open boat without being affected by capsize or sustained water pressure?
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-t...rod113520.html
__________________

__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 09:51   #92
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

A cautionary tale about a handheld GPS!

Hard not to laugh.....

In regard to OP's choice of vessel, IIRC choice of a Wayfarer about following in the footsteps (wake?) of Frank Dye and as the intention is to buy a new one I suspect that even if budget not mega bucks, nonetheless not minimal either.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 10:01   #93
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,705
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Celtic Sea Dog,

Had you considered a sextant and nav tables? No power drain issues there.

I hope you'll have some lighting at night?? [I just hate running up on unlit boats.]

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 10:10   #94
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Celtic Sea Dog,

Had you considered a sextant and nav tables? No power drain issues there.

I hope you'll have some lighting at night??

Ann
I'm afraid it's sheer impossible to take a sextant sighting from a 16' dinghy while also sailing it. I mean, I assumed this was a single-handed endeavor? Standing up, leaning against the mast, I can see somebody better at it than me achieve this as long as the dinghy is sailing and pressure in the sail stabilizes things a bit.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 10:11   #95
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

i am somewhat a gopro nut.
scoobertjoo's channel - YouTube
how will you charge a bunch of gopro's.
mine take about 1-2 hours to charge with the massive extra battery.
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 11:34   #96
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,705
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Jedi,

My thinking was that he could heave to to take sights, if necessary. When we were using sextant navigation only, it was on a 30' boat, and yes, those sights were not highly accurate. Jim did most of them with one arm around the backstay. But, if you don't count on such fixes for more than plus or minus 2.5 mi in all directions, if you are willing to expect to be about 5 miles out and give the hard bits an appropriate berth, it would give Celtic Sea Dog a non-electric solution to the problem. Obviously, people now are more comfortable with electronic gadgets. But I see "16 ft. dinghy," and I think, "EXTREMELY WET", and I know that salt water and electronics are highly uncomfortable bedfellows.

I wanted to offer an "outside the 9 dots" possible solution. Some people take to doing things the old fashioned way, and find it meaningful. Who am I to say CSD might not be one of them?

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 12:14   #97
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Jedi,

My thinking was that he could heave to to take sights, if necessary. When we were using sextant navigation only, it was on a 30' boat, and yes, those sights were not highly accurate. Jim did most of them with one arm around the backstay. But, if you don't count on such fixes for more than plus or minus 2.5 mi in all directions, if you are willing to expect to be about 5 miles out and give the hard bits an appropriate berth, it would give Celtic Sea Dog a non-electric solution to the problem. Obviously, people now are more comfortable with electronic gadgets. But I see "16 ft. dinghy," and I think, "EXTREMELY WET", and I know that salt water and electronics are highly uncomfortable bedfellows.

I wanted to offer an "outside the 9 dots" possible solution. Some people take to doing things the old fashioned way, and find it meaningful. Who am I to say CSD might not be one of them?

Ann
Yes, well I would certainly try it before rejecting it. I must say I was often wrong more than 2.5nm in perfect conditions

The gadgets are all waterproof and I would put them in additional waterproof containers. Except the PLB and strobe which would be on me all the time. This stuff is made for it.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 13:54   #98
Registered User
 
nwdiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 359
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Although a bit of a techno-luddite , gotta say that is some cool sh#t .

I used the older model with my iPhone to arrange a pickup of an injured researcher on the ice off of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic 2 years ago, all our expeditions now carry 2 inReach and no sat phones, we had a sat phone on that trip but is had comm problems, the location info and two way messaging allows us to give local weather to the pilots right up to minutes before they landed, by way of their base on Resolute Bay. The new system is so cheap I would carry a second one as backup on my boat, and it is rechargeable so it could be kept plugged in so the battery is always charged . The old ones eat batteries, but we just used them to check in and request equipment and give our position several times a day not constantly. We use lithium batteries and they stay warm, like in a pocket inside my parka.
__________________
nwdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 14:12   #99
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,750
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Curious if the planned route is direct Scotland to Iceland, or via the faroes?

We did this via the faroes about a decade ago. It makes the legs shorter, but there are some very strong currents and rips around the faroes. If going by the faroes, you should get what the brit cruisers call 'the red scare book' - the current atlas with lots of big red arrows in it.

We also had a force 10 snowstorm on June 4th just off the Iceland east coast Enough snow that it closed the main east coast highway on Iceland.

For navigation, personally I would get two handheld gps. Which models would depend on how much money there is to spend, but at the cheap end . . . two garmin 72H's would definitely do the job. I would keep them in double ziplock bags, have all the possible waypoints pre-programed in, and get a fix and updated course to steer every 6 hrs.

For communication it would depend entirely on his objective 'a private voyage' or a full 'social media experience'.

For weather, the best bet is to have someone ashore who knows what they are doing sending SMS size text summaries. There are also some quite good very small all band receivers that could get the high seas forecasts - that might be nice and workable on a nice day, but probably not so much on a bad weather day.

I have mixed feelings about carrying a plb/epirb on a venture like this. I wonder if you should be putting anyone else's life at risk trying to come get you when you personally are choosing to go to sea in a 16' open boat. Also your survival time in the water is going to be pretty short in any case, even with a dry suit.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 16:01   #100
Registered User
 
celtic sea dog's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 28
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Celtic Sea Dog,

Had you considered a sextant and nav tables? No power drain issues there.

I hope you'll have some lighting at night?? [I just hate running up on unlit boats.]

Ann
Hi Ann,
Everything and every angle is on the table and being considered. I can see a lot of sense in relying on proven techniques. Dye himself managed to take sights by being gymnastic around the mast, though he did have a crew!
Some LED lighting solutions are being thrashed out regarding nav. Lights and also a radar reflector.
I havent decided on any particular approach firmly. Power usage is a real dilema and one I am going to have to test and trial rigorously beforehand. Preparation, preparation and preparation!
I think mutiple handheld devices and a bit of traditional mixed in will be a prudent approach.
__________________
celtic sea dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 16:42   #101
Registered User
 
celtic sea dog's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Curious if the planned route is direct Scotland to Iceland, or via the faroes?

We did this via the faroes about a decade ago. It makes the legs shorter, but there are some very strong currents and rips around the faroes. If going by the faroes, you should get what the brit cruisers call 'the red scare book' - the current atlas with lots of big red arrows in it.

We also had a force 10 snowstorm on June 4th just off the Iceland east coast Enough snow that it closed the main east coast highway on Iceland.

For navigation, personally I would get two handheld gps. Which models would depend on how much money there is to spend, but at the cheap end . . . two garmin 72H's would definitely do the job. I would keep them in double ziplock bags, have all the possible waypoints pre-programed in, and get a fix and updated course to steer every 6 hrs.

For communication it would depend entirely on his objective 'a private voyage' or a full 'social media experience'.

For weather, the best bet is to have someone ashore who knows what they are doing sending SMS size text summaries. There are also some quite good very small all band receivers that could get the high seas forecasts - that might be nice and workable on a nice day, but probably not so much on a bad weather day.

I have mixed feelings about carrying a plb/epirb on a venture like this. I wonder if you should be putting anyone else's life at risk trying to come get you when you personally are choosing to go to sea in a 16' open boat. Also your survival time in the water is going to be pretty short in any case, even with a dry suit.
Suvival time would be short yes. And yes it is risk I have to take responsibility for, so I share your mixed feelings too.
Both routes are being considered and I think I can rest assured I will run into some sort of storm regardless of which window I choose. Most of the weather in the northern hemisphere is forming here constantly and pushes down cyclicly . Its a given I will run into heavy weather. It will just be a case of hoving to, laying out a drogue, covering the boat with the mast down and sitting it out when I have to. I do hope I dont get a force 10 driving blizzard though!
Will always find local knowledge and pilot books of tidal flows, rips etc before entering those waters. Preparation, preparation and preparation! I am watching avidly, the weather in those waters and looking for patterns. The only thing is , that there doesnt seem to be a constant at the moment. The weather in the northern hemisphere has become quite erratic over the last 3 or 4, years, so its difficult to predict. As you said, june 4th force10 snow!!
__________________
celtic sea dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 17:43   #102
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,705
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

Hey Doggie,

" Its a given I will run into heavy weather. It will just be a case of hoving to, laying out a drogue, covering the boat with the mast down and sitting it out when I have to." ...How much of a seaway have you tried this in? I find I want to be supportive, but a little dinghy jumps around hugely in big seas and wind: the thought of getting the mast down safely, and securing the tarp (have to give that one a LOT of thought) sounds nearly impossible.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 18:04   #103
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic sea dog View Post

Suvival time would be short yes. And yes it is risk I have to take responsibility for, so I share your mixed feelings too.
Both routes are being considered and I think I can rest assured I will run into some sort of storm regardless of which window I choose. Most of the weather in the northern hemisphere is forming here constantly and pushes down cyclicly . Its a given I will run into heavy weather. It will just be a case of hoving to, laying out a drogue, covering the boat with the mast down and sitting it out when I have to. I do hope I dont get a force 10 driving blizzard though!
Will always find local knowledge and pilot books of tidal flows, rips etc before entering those waters. Preparation, preparation and preparation! I am watching avidly, the weather in those waters and looking for patterns. The only thing is , that there doesnt seem to be a constant at the moment. The weather in the northern hemisphere has become quite erratic over the last 3 or 4, years, so its difficult to predict. As you said, june 4th force10 snow!!

If we all agree that you will get wracked with bad weather, I can now ask the question I had a few days ago. Is this the right boat? It has no bulkheads and a huge open cockpit. If you study the good micro-cruisers they can be pooped and not sink.

The boat you have selected has the open water integrity of a decked canoe. Suggestion- consider adding a bulkhead and making the forward area water tight. Also decrease the size of the cockpit to no more than 3-4 feet.

When you are done with these mods, are you better off with a different boat?
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 18:14   #104
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: what is the best navigation system to install on a 16ft dinghy?

One cannot reason with a person who lacks common sense. Most of us like to plan ahead our adventures so that we may enjoy them; hence, the bell shaped curve used in statistics. It's the 2%-4% of the population that cause the most stress on everyone else. The way I look at it...if someone rides a motorcycle without a helmet to protect his/her head...sorry to say, that head is really not worth much! Mauritz
__________________
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2013, 19:50   #105
Registered User
 
Greggegner's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post

If we all agree that you will get wracked with bad weather, I can now ask the question I had a few days ago. Is this the right boat? It has no bulkheads and a huge open cockpit. If you study the good micro-cruisers they can be pooped and not sink.

The boat you have selected has the open water integrity of a decked canoe. Suggestion- consider adding a bulkhead and making the forward area water tight. Also decrease the size of the cockpit to no more than 3-4 feet.

When you are done with these mods, are you better off with a different boat?
Strongly agree ...you need to get the cockpit space down to you with several air tight compartments with you 3 or 4 inches off the hull so you can stay dry. Hypothermia is a constant problem water pulls heat away like 2500 time more that air. You need to talk with mountaineering organizations for gear information on warm clothes, sleeping bags, food prep, etc. You are camping as much sailing. You will also need lots of calories and fat to stay warm. Laminate solar panels on the cabin tops you will build. Use carbon fiber and make strong light panels, install two small batteries.

Taking the mast down when the weather is bad...I don't think so..getting a drone over board and getting the sails down and the storm cover on will be the max you can do. You will be stiff from not moving. I would have roller furling jib and main so you can furl and adjust the amount of sail often. The cover should never be completely removed. It should be simple to put I place. Before you go, sleep several nights in the boat and start eating only the food you will take. You need to be accustom to as much as you can. The trip will stretch you far enough. This sounds fun, I have some winter camping experience, 30-45f is the worst temp to stay warm in...no ice just water. Let us know your decisions...some boat pics and a equipment list would be very interesting. This may have been suggested, but research how Shackleton outfitted his little boats.
__________________

__________________
Greggegner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dinghy, navigation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.