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Old 25-11-2012, 08:29   #211
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

A notice on La Tavern about a sub-race of those players willing to limit directions to the autopilot to once a day. ---- Good for the next race.

The committee has decided to open another category for the Vent Des Globes.

Players willing to participate have to register in this topic.

The rules are the following:

The player has the right to pass orders to VLM only once a day (calendar day), during one hour. One the first order of the day has been committed to VLM, the player has one hour to modify it or add new instructions. After this hour has passed, he will be obliged to wait for the next calendar day to send new orders to VLM. Orders generated by the autopilot (pilototo) do not account for a player action. Filling the pilototo does.

The first day of the race is free and you can pass as many orders as you want. The rules start to apply on Sunday, November 11th 00h00GMT.

Examples:

On November 15th I send my first order of the day to VLM at 12h00 GMT. I have until 13h00GMT (12h59m59s) to correct it or to send new ones. After that time I must wait until November 16th at 00h00 GMT at least to send new instructions for my boat to VLM.

On November 15th I pass my first order of the day at 23h45. Then I pass another order on November 16th at 00h10 GMT. I have until 01h10 to pass new orders. Then I will have to wait until November 17th 00h00GMT at least to send new orders.

The OMOROB rule continues to apply, therefore it is forbidden to register 2 boats in the Vent Des Globes race. A boat participating in this category continues to participate in the general one.

The committee will check the log of the players who registered in this category. In case of a failure to follow these rules the player will no longer participate in this ranking, but will continue to participate in the general one.


*********************************
* INSCRITS/REGISTERED *
*********************************

-Swing System #21951
-ravaillac3 #20341
-Sereine #10363
-Chosejaune #18727
-BateauTest #20048
-Linea #7063
-tchekof #21885
-marano590 #14500
-Bobato1 #9944
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Old 25-11-2012, 08:39   #212
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Maitai reports on La Tavern:

There were several issues with the new 3.3.4
It was no longer possible to start a routing with a future starting date, that was patch1.
Then we discovered a problem of slowness when qtVlm was running on a old, mono-cpu machine, or on windows XP. That was patch2.
And finally there was a problem in the grib display, that was patch3
We don't know yet what the patch4 will fix
----
! confirmation of order = new order
Let me explain your boat is under VBVMG and you click VBVMG> new order ... the system will tell the skipper xa "update angles: PIM = 5" at such a time. (I mean interface VLM and qtVlm for FT ... just click on "send order" and then you know what we do).
---
Note: Those who are "Once a Day" are highlighted in Darker Blue on the spectator forum.
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Old 25-11-2012, 08:54   #213
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Frogtools - what is it? [I think it is another tool for Virtual Races, which perhaps helps with routing.] -Perhaps Maitai will help us out with the purpose?
Frogtool Wiki [English Google Translate]
Frogtools [on line tool] FrogTools
-Requires logging in with a boat.

"Frogtools was born several needs, the principal is the release time for basic tasks and games on the transcript of a visual interface. This was made possible by the increase in computing power in recent years, as well as increased rates of connections users.
The Committee has in recent months Vlm chosen to favor external interfaces by performing development work on heavy interfacing. Without this gigantic Team dev VLM, this small application will never have been possible.

This small program developed in Silverlight aims to be used by users for occasional intuitive and are sick of "rasecailloux" for the accuracy of the data displayed.

version is of course in "Beta" for testing, do not hesitate to post in this forum about the things you find abnormal.

managed by the doc Agades is available here: http://wiki.virtual-...x.php/FrogTools

software has not to be installed on your computer, it can be accessed directly via the following link:

http://silverlight.v.../frogtools.html"
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Old 25-11-2012, 11:48   #214
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Frogtool is another tool related to VLM. It has also a routing module and such. It's a nice tool and many players use it too.
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Old 28-11-2012, 05:53   #215
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

VLM Spectator
VLM - Mode Spectateur

VLM Spectator requires registration....this link requires me to enter name and password, which is fine, but I'd like my Norton Login assistant to do the work, and it is locked out from operating properly. Is there a different link or way of doing this to eliminate keystrokes?

Thanks for the VLM Spectator search hint. In Firefox use [Ctrl-F] "Edit/Find" and enter boat names you are searching for.
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Old 29-11-2012, 05:10   #216
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

I've been watching a low for days, knowing my route would skirt the bottom side of it. The routing/route unfailingly mapped a course just inside of greater winds, and believing that VLM would have the fastest course, I took that course and did not waiver, all the time eyeing the greater wind to the south, and running comparative routes on competitors and watching the results carefully. I even watched Frogeater succumb to that urge and tack south west for several long tacks. I persisted on the VLM course thinking it knew the fastest course for my boat. Now I am in 327 and still falling. My comparative routings/routes for competitors never had that much of a difference. .. I should have followed my hunch I think.

So what has happened?
1. VLM algorithym is not perfect.
2. I did not get up at midnight and download a new grib and chart a new route. (This morning VLM is charting the same course as always with new grib datea.)
2. Weather changed ever so slightly which has made a compound and sequential and serious difference in the many VLM calculations.

From earlier routing/routes I should have fallen, but not nearly so far!
This is a very remarkable program, but I think there are certain conditions where it is not fully cognizant of the opportunities, and I am trying to understand why.

Good learning experience. Anyone's comments / thoughts?

Also if I do a route/routing and hover over a waypoint + hit shift and move the waypoint, then run a new optimization, will that optimize the route for all other parts of the route, but not move the waypoint?

I guess this is where using the grib esteem is important. I've got to learn how to work it. Is there a tutorial or some words written about it? Or should I just dive in?
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Old 29-11-2012, 05:29   #217
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Okay here's a screen shot of the route that got me in trouble, (but of course that route is the result of earlier decisions too, to follow what VLM proposed) without waiver. I have made a more temporary routing, converted to route, then moved a waypoint south. When I proceed through time, the position shows this route to be slower, but I think it might be faster.

In the VLM screen graphic showing the boat, what do the black tick mark and brown tick mark represent?
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Old 29-11-2012, 05:51   #218
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

If you speak about qtVlm compass in the dashboard, the black tick mark is the direction to your WP-VLM, and the brown one is the direction of the nearest point of the next gate.
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Old 29-11-2012, 06:13   #219
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
So what has happened?
1. VLM algorithym is not perfect.
2. I did not get up at midnight and download a new grib and chart a new route. (This morning VLM is charting the same course as always with new grib datea.)
2. Weather changed ever so slightly which has made a compound and sequential and serious difference in the many VLM calculations.

From earlier routing/routes I should have fallen, but not nearly so far!
This is a very remarkable program, but I think there are certain conditions where it is not fully cognizant of the opportunities, and I am trying to understand why.

Good learning experience. Anyone's comments / thoughts?
Rick,

A routing algorithym has to make some choices and therefore is not perfect. Nevertheless I think you get with the routing the best route for that particular grib. The problem is about correctly evaluating the risks involved in the proposed solution. For instance if you don't convert the routing immediately to a route, you have many way to evaluate that. First of all the shape of the isochrons tells a lot. You can display the wind strength along isochrons (hide isochrons and check the "Color TWS between Isos" option). Maybe it will show that qtVlm has correctly calculated to be in a very narrow "windy" corridor in 5 days time, surrounded by calms... Then you have to ask yourself what if this narrow corridor is not where it's supposed to be in 5 days, or if I cannot reach it in time because the gib has changed slightly during the previous day? And maybe you will choose another, safer route. Or maybe not, but you must know the risk.

Another way to analyse the risk is to calculate inversed iso, and study the resulting shape. Again a narrow path means a risky path that might not be there when you arrived on it.

You can also ask qtVlm to display alternative routes (advanced tab) or to route with a what-if scenario (advanced options tab also). For instance what-if the wind is stronger than predicted. Or what if this nice depression is faster that planned?

Experience plays a role too... For instance at one point of the race qtVlm proposed once to follow africa coast a bit like you did, and certainly it was the best at that moment with that grib. But I knew for past experience that this is almost always a bad idea... And in fact qtVlm changed his mind the next grib or so.

Routing is not just converting a routing in a route and send it to autopilot... that would be boring
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Old 29-11-2012, 08:11   #220
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Maitai, I was getting boried, simply following the qtVlm route, but I had to try it to see how it worked. Now I just have to wade through this situation. Yes, I think weather risk is a good way to analyze it. Perhaps it did not fill in as fast as predicted, but that does not appear to be the case according to my spot checks on wind (not quantified)

I will look more carefully at the shape of isochrones and try the inverse and what if on the advanced routing tab, not sure I understand it yet.

How do you use grib esteem, where does it help? Thanks for all your good explanations.

Yes, experience...what can I say. I think you are 67 now and I am last recorded at 347 rocking in your wake! Don't know where Kirke is now, but he's up there too which is good. Go for it. I am afraid your friend Frogeater took a middle course like me and corrected to SW in a big jog at the end. He has faired better than I have, I believe.

Really like the Ctrl+E QtVlm/ScreenShot, it uploads at normal res to this website, with no changes!

Best, Rick
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Old 29-11-2012, 08:56   #221
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Grib esteem is more dedicated for short term tactic rather than long term strategy. Routing is unable to calculate in fix wind angle mode, or in fix heading mode. VBVMG formulas is a good but not always the best way to navigate from one point to another. In such a race I don't use it (well I have not use it so far, I might do it close too obstacles or gates).
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:18   #222
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Hi Rick
Kirke is at the moment on 54.
One week ago i have made the decision to go more west and south as qtvkm shows it at this time.
This is strategie an experience of how fast the low pressure systems can change in the southatlantic,
also there is most of the time a blocking high pressure system over St. Helena.
So now in the roaring 40th, we should try to catch a low and ride it until we arefalling off the edge
Good luck to all
Hartmut
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Old 30-11-2012, 09:19   #223
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Thanks Kirke, I see you now, will try to catch some waves. Good Luck to all.

Regarding the Grib Files:
Zygrib (Fourth Icon)- "Download" -Server is Zygrib, Dialogue box with choices
VLM (Fifth Icon) - "Down load from VLM", radio button choice, entire world
Saildocs (Sixth Icon) - "Download from Saildocs", sends an email
UGrib -Do you have to use Ugrib software and then load (Third Icon)?

I have been using Saildocs (more days, with greater weather "risks") for longer routings to get the big picture and then Zygrib for more local routing of about 2 days. Is there anything wrong with that approach?

It appears that the VLM gribs are available 45 minutes earlier than Zygrib, and 65 minutes earlier than Ugrib, so perhaps I should be using those when first available?

I understand that many of these grib sources, including VLM are based upon NOAA grib files (which are basically analyzed interpretations/predictions) which are done some hours earlier than when first made available. Does any one have thoughts or knowledge on the sources and reliability of these gribs and some idea of which ones are from different sources? Or even which ones you prefer and why?

Thanks Rick
-----
"VLM is a web-based real-time Sailboat-routing simulation, using real weather data (wind strength and direction) updated every 6 hours - GMT 3h40, 9h40, 15h40 & 21h40). The grib file used is Index of / and are in 3 hour steps and 0.5° grid and is interpolated for use in the game. Each one-design race uses a specific boat polar. Boat speed and direction are updated every 5 minutes, typically." (from the Wiki)
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Old 30-11-2012, 09:59   #224
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

Routing Tests -
Ran a single long routing to Aus West Gate using Saildocs Grib. It misses gates but I did not do the 3 or 4 Pivots to force the route to pass the gates properly. Under Routing > Edit Routing, I tried to unselect "Show Isochrones" and Check "Inverse Isochrones" a message pops up that says "For the time being it is not possible to calculate inversed isochrones if variable duration is chosen" - Not sure I understand this.

Also when I check "Color TWS" True Wind Speed and uncheck "Show Isochrones" there is a nice graphic which shows wind speeds. I assume this is showing the wind speeds at the time the boat passes by that location? -A brief explanation of what this shows would be helpful.
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Old 30-11-2012, 10:03   #225
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Re: VENDÉE GLOBE round the world race

PS:
I notice that if you try to optimize an older "Route" and you are using a shorter time period grib than the original Route used, you will loose the end of the Route, although the waypoints are still there. If I take the last destination waypoint and then try to edit it and check "Activate" nothing happens, the full route does not come back. I suppose I have to reload the longer time period grib first, then it willl work. Is that correct?
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