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Old 23-04-2019, 18:28   #1
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upgrade of navagation system

Hi all,
thinking of upgrading the instruments on our Bavaria 36 cruiser with a new Raymarine Axiom (or similar) MFD. The intention is to remove all the current instruments on the pedestal and install a 9 or 12 inch display. This would provide a single solution for navigation and all other necessary instruments. Has anyone attempted this and what are your thoughts on doing this upgrade. Your thoughts and comments will be most welcome.

Howard
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Old 24-04-2019, 03:20   #2
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Yep, I do this all the time for work at owners request. Most end up with instruments as well, as displaying everything on the mfd in useable size takes up too much screen space. Personally Iíd go B&G Zeus 3 rather than Raymarine, but others like the Raymarine solution. Once youíve had a good mfd at the helm, youíll wonder how you managed before!
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Old 24-04-2019, 03:37   #3
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Yep, I do this all the time for work at owners request. Most end up with instruments as well, as displaying everything on the mfd in useable size takes up too much screen space. Personally Iíd go B&G Zeus 3 rather than Raymarine, but others like the Raymarine solution. Once youíve had a good mfd at the helm, youíll wonder how you managed before!
Hi Matt. I'm hearing & reading reports of problems & especially poor customer service/response when it comes to the new (Navico) B&G products. As usual, reports of problems are mixed, and may of course come down to installation issues. The latest, however, is about a routine software update which has caused frustrating problems. I only ask because I still have my old B&G instruments and AP which are getting long in the tooth at this point, and may need to upgrade.

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Old 24-04-2019, 03:51   #4
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

There was recently an update (18.3) that caused issues. It was quite quickly removed when those issues became apparent, and has since been patched and re released. Far and away most of the issues I see are installation or power problems. Raymarine is not free of those either, nor of software problems. I sell, install, and maintain both brands, and my own preference is B&G. Thatís what I have on my boat (and a PC with opencpn).
Support from both companies can leave something to be desired on occasion, but here in New Zealand, Navico support is generally pretty good.
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Old 24-04-2019, 04:34   #5
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

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Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
There was recently an update (18.3) that caused issues. It was quite quickly removed when those issues became apparent, and has since been patched and re released. Far and away most of the issues I see are installation or power problems. Raymarine is not free of those either, nor of software problems. I sell, install, and maintain both brands, and my own preference is B&G. Thatís what I have on my boat (and a PC with opencpn).
Support from both companies can leave something to be desired on occasion, but here in New Zealand, Navico support is generally pretty good.
Thanks Matt. I always take negative reviews with a grain of salt, especially given all the variables when systems are owner-installed. I try and evaluate instead based on patterns, and of course negative press always far outlasts positive reviews it seems. There may also be different levels of customer service for the end user as opposed to a dealer.

Is it fair to say -- apples-to-apples that is -- that B&G is more expensive than Ray &/or Garmin?
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Old 24-04-2019, 08:50   #6
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Please pay attention: the axiom 7 and axiom 9 displays both have the same resolution, so there is very little added value in axiom 9 vs axiom 7 (but substantial price difference)
This is why I am to install the axiom 7
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Old 24-04-2019, 09:16   #7
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

I'm very suspect of a "one system does it all". What happens when the screen goes blank, software goes bonkers and heaven knows what else? I'll take my old Data Marine wind ,depth, Garmin GPS, EV-100 autopilot, AIS, VHF radio. When one breaks, I'm not sunk.
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Old 24-04-2019, 09:24   #8
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

I have old B&G instruments and had an old AP when I bought my boat. I went with B&G thinking stay in the same brand for less potential issues. Had to replace my AP brain as it had been fried with a new brain and precision compass. I kept and used the original hydraulic ram. The manuals on this unit are not all that great and daily talks with Steve who at the time was the ONLY customer service rep in the USA meant long wait times on hold. We got stuck trying to calibrate the compass, had to find a specific page in the menu options, he couldn't help us. My tech buddy spent 3 days before he found it buried. Ugh.

After that, it has worked flawlessly and I love the forward scan I also installed.

When I bought this there was supposedly a little black box that would convert the original instrument info into N2K. Apparently that was incorrect info I would discover only after I installed the unit. Another tech buddy says he'll make me a cable to do it. We have the same boat/instruments. On his boat, he has an old Raymarine and still had the analog depth instrument on the helm. We zip tied it to the top of the pedestal so when going into shallow waters we had a quick, large numbers depth to read. I may keep mine outside as well. The mfd can display a lot and having a quick, only does 1 thing depth sounds good to me.
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Old 24-04-2019, 09:45   #9
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

A month ago, I installed a Raymarine Axion Pro 9 inch plotter. I returned to South Africa a few days ago from Mozambique and the plotter met my expectations. Its a lovely machine. However, I wish to transfer routes via a PGX transfer file from PredictWind to my Raymarine CP wirelessly. It cant be done whilst it is possible with Garmin and B&G. So Raymarine are lagging in this arena. I've also been able to integrate my new Raymarine with my very old B & G AP. Its a lovely plotter but they do urgently need to sort out wireless route transfers from a tablet or laptop.
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Old 24-04-2019, 10:19   #10
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Quote:
Originally Posted by moctrams View Post
I'm very suspect of a "one system does it all". What happens when the screen goes blank, software goes bonkers and heaven knows what else? I'll take my old Data Marine wind ,depth, Garmin GPS, EV-100 autopilot, AIS, VHF radio. When one breaks, I'm not sunk.
x2 I'd be installing the old CP/GPS down below wired and ready to go.
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Old 24-04-2019, 10:53   #11
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Yep, I do this all the time for work at owners request. Most end up with instruments as well, as displaying everything on the mfd in useable size takes up too much screen space. Personally Iíd go B&G Zeus 3 rather than Raymarine, but others like the Raymarine solution. Once youíve had a good mfd at the helm, youíll wonder how you managed before!
I sell this stuff and I also agree that I'd prefer B&G Zeus, or Garmin, over the Raymarine. Raymarine make a good product, however Garmin and B&G seem to me to be more flexible and more intuitive.

I also second the idea of keeping at least some instruments apart from the MFD. In particular, I would always have a large depth gauge as well as an engine temperature/warning light separate. Most people don't flip between screens that often, plus there's little chance of missing data when there is a separate gauge for these two.

Raymarine's tech support is good IF you can get through to them in season. I don't even try on Mondays or Tuesdays and I have a special dealer line. I had a Coast Guard commander purchase over $30K worth of gear and it took over six weeks just to get a level two tech to assist him.

Whatever you do, go to a store or a neighbour's boat and play with the ones you are thinking of. Be sure to use all of the menus and see what you like and don't like. Too often I see customers come in and insist upon a certain product since they fall in love with the big glossy screen or minimalist look, only to find out later that they don't like it, or don't like the extra steps required to do something, or that it doesn't do what they want.
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Old 24-04-2019, 13:38   #12
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

I think it is important to know what you expect, in detail, from the system. I was helping a friend install his B&G and discovered that one feature I thought would be standard was MIA; unfortunately I don't remember which feature. So all I can say is think it through and make certain you are getting all of the features you want. Calibration of sensors and calculation of leeway are sometimes not available on chartplotters, but beyond that I am just not remembering. Sorry.

You should look carefully at the chart situation. Does the chartplotter include any charts? What charts are available for it, what do they cost, and how often are they updated? Furuno USA includes the NOAA vector and raster charts, updated annually, for US coastal waters (including Great Lakes and western rivers) for free. Both C-Map and Navionics charts are available through MapMedia for Furuno, which is the same format as MaxSea. The RM Axiom can be bought with chart packages, at a price, but AFAIK they are not updated for free. Garmin has their own proprietary charts so if considering them take a close look and determine if that will meet your needs. I don't know the B&G situation. Personally I am very happy with Furuno's NN3D chartplotter.

Raymarine sells a product (ITC-5) that can interface with old-style depth and speed transducers and put the data on N2K. The advantage is that it is fully functional without having to haul and replace transducers with "smart" N2K transducers. It is simply a matter of disconnecting the transducer cables from the old instruments, cut off the connectors, then attach to the ITC-5. Works a treat...

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Old 24-04-2019, 19:44   #13
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Ive had all the brands mentioned previously and currently have s b&g system. I too had three issue with the 18.3 update but have moved in.
Raymarine is my last choice due to price, lack of care in the past by Raymarine support, Garmin let me down when I needed a replacement power plug for my 2 year old chartplotter when a power point broke. Their answer? Buy a new unit. Nah.
So far the B&G setup has been superb and is tailored to sail.
But I do have repeaters should the screen fail. I.likebackups.
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Old 25-04-2019, 03:28   #14
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

Is there any downside to dispensing with a chartplotter altogether, and going instead with a PC and waterproof, daylight-readable repeater monitor in the cockpit? Far less expensive (most of us already have the PC although waterproof/high pixel monitors aren't cheap), easier to update charts, more flexible, and potentially more options when it comes to chart sourcing. AIS and, in some cases, radar can also be shown. Variety of software options to choose from, including OpenCPN freeware. Not necessarily trying to pitch one over the other, only wondering what dedicated chartplotters have to offer these days over the PC option.
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Old 25-04-2019, 04:10   #15
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Re: upgrade of navagation system

10" Tablet with:

https://www.amazon.com/4smarts-Unive.../dp/B0727NTQTQ


AND: CHECK the abilities and the difference in price and usability
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