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Old 20-06-2013, 19:11   #331
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Its worse than I thought.

1. They had two electronic charts with different positions for the reef--the CO was aware of the discrepancy and chose the (wrong) more detailed chart. He neglected readily available information like the light list which would have highlighted the chart problem.

2. They used the open ocean navigation mode in near-shore waters.

3. The navy recreated the scenario and the navigation system put out something like 12 visual and audio warnings--which were ignored.

4. The lighthouse was first picked up on radar and visual over an hour before grounding, and was identified as a lighthouse (not in its expected position) over half an hour before grounding. They even knew it was the right lighthouse in the wrong position.

5. The watch changed shortly before the grounding, and the new watch was made aware of the lighthouse in the wrong position, but neither watch figured out that this might be a problem--they just watched their expensive chartplotter and didn't slow down until they hit the reef.

If these guys were on watch on my boat, I wouldn't be able to sleep.
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Old 21-06-2013, 08:20   #332
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

My experience with USN is that electronic charts/GPS has killed their knowledge of the art of navigation.
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Old 21-06-2013, 08:37   #333
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by yankee-clipper View Post
My experience with USN is that electronic charts/GPS has killed their knowledge of the art of navigation.
Back in the good-o-daze I do remember standing watch on the bridge and drawing lines on the chart every half hour or when there was a course change. I wonder if they still do that?
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Old 21-06-2013, 08:38   #334
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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My experience with USN is that electronic charts/GPS has killed their knowledge of the art of navigation.
I finally waded through the whole report, and they agree with you. The investigation showed that the Guardian had recently gone into and out of Subic Bay relying SOLELY on their fancy chartplotter.
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Old 21-06-2013, 08:48   #335
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
I finally waded through the whole report, and they agree with you. The investigation showed that the Guardian had recently gone into and out of Subic Bay relying SOLELY on their fancy chartplotter.
That does not surprise me.

What is surprising to me is that it is surprising to the Navy.......it's 2013, have they never read CF about electronics? .
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Old 21-06-2013, 09:01   #336
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

so many armchairs
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Old 21-06-2013, 09:32   #337
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

From 6th page of PDF:

Quote:
b. Logging Requirements.
I note GUARDIAN failed to execute the 11 Special Logging Requirements 11 procedures in NAVDORM Chapter 5 that require specific actions following a grounding. This would have preserved all the "Situational Awareness System" files covering data for two hours before and two hours after the incident. Logging requirements data would have assisted in the reconstruction of the incident.
...ok. sure.

But, yes... closure.
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Old 21-06-2013, 09:57   #338
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
That does not surprise me.

What is surprising to me is that it is surprising to the Navy.......it's 2013, have they never read CF about electronics? .
I think, like someone has stated,these are lies that must be told in order to keep up apperances...I guess its just coincedence that the PI Navy gets a boat stuck on a reef ,the chinese navy gets stuck on a reef and the US navy gets stuck on a reef and all in the same geografic area ,in the hottest, highly contested sea lanes in the world (second to the straights of Hormus) If you want to build or install something and you dont want to tell everyone whats going on, make it look like a disaster has happened and you need to address it,forest fires come to mind,then you have a blanket of smoke to do what ever it is you need to do where no one can see you because of the smoke..I belive the US recovered a russian(soviet)submarine this way a few years back..Howard Huges made a big ship that was operating under the pretext of oil exploration,they then docked over the sunken vessel and then pulled her up from the bottom of the sea and brought it to a facility where it could be examined...Could be a good way to get feet(flippers) on the ground when a place is being contested by different countrys also..Believe half of what you see kind of thing...
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Old 21-06-2013, 15:40   #339
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Lol is their a grassy knoll nearby? Has anyone asked about area 51 involvement? I bet there's a UFO there...probably never was a reef! Ooh those videos you've seen? FAKED! You don't really believe men were on the Moon?
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Old 21-06-2013, 19:01   #340
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Lol is their a grassy knoll nearby? Has anyone asked about area 51 involvement? I bet there's a UFO there...probably never was a reef! Ooh those videos you've seen? FAKED! You don't really believe men were on the Moon?
I guess Howard and the US gov. didnt take that Soviet submarine,I made that **** up..While Im thinking about it ,I guess everything is done with total transparency and there are no "secrets",hell everybody living during WWII knew all about Oak Ridge..Tell us Fat cat, what is its like to live in a world where everything is "clear cut" and nothing happens without the Governments of the world telling you everything they are doing? I should resign myself to the fact that everything is as it appears and there is no need to have state secrets or clandestine activity going own,just tell the chinese and the russians everything thats happening and they can react accordingly and your country will be safe..I hope they dont go to war with the same charts that put them on that reef, now that would be something to LOL about..UFOs and reefs that were not there are for kids, you silly rabbit..lol
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Old 21-06-2013, 22:15   #341
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

What you really should do my friend is buck up! You never take different opinions well at all, but I THOUGHT you could take some ribbing. Sheesh...there are 12 step programs for this problem!
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Old 22-06-2013, 07:51   #342
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo View Post
What you really should do my friend is buck up! You never take different opinions well at all, but I THOUGHT you could take some ribbing. Sheesh...there are 12 step programs for this problem!
I did take the ribbing,I thought you could!!I wasnt trying to be ugly,and I didnt take offense to your opinon,Im so mis-understood,I guess I dont have much tact!? Sorry if I was to abrasive,I must be the "silly rabbit"..
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Old 22-06-2013, 09:43   #343
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Back in the good-o-daze I do remember standing watch on the bridge and drawing lines on the chart every half hour or when there was a course change. I wonder if they still do that?
Yes it's still done.
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Old 23-06-2013, 08:13   #344
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I think the Navy needs to give their navigators some positive incentive--find an error in a chart or navigation system and get a promotion.
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Old 23-06-2013, 09:28   #345
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I wonder if the "ladder of blame" descended all the way down to an 18 year old fresh out of basic training.
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