Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-04-2013, 09:03   #271
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Actually, I've never been on a minesweeper so it's possible the XO and Navigator are the same person, but the ANav is typically a senior enlisted sailor.
__________________

__________________
steven_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 11:47   #272
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,941
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
... a transfer without loss of rank, that's damned generous for killing your own ship, isn't it? Sounds like they couldn't fix direct blame on anyone or thing.
I don't think a formal investigation has been held yet, or at least I don't recall hearing about same, and the conclusions. I'm still expecting a court-martial.
__________________

__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 12:22   #273
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,310
Images: 75
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I don't think a formal investigation has been held yet, or at least I don't recall hearing about same, and the conclusions. I'm still expecting a court-martial.
Senior Leadership from Ex-USS Guardian Fired | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 14:10   #274
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
And a transfer without loss of rank, that's damned generous for killing your own ship, isn't it?
No, it's not.
__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 15:58   #275
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 17:16   #276
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?
The difference is its their job , they,re professionals.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 18:08   #277
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The difference is its their job , they,re professionals.

Dave
I don't feel that is any different, other than name calling.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 19:03   #278
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Ah, Don, those guys are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS of the highest caliber. They didn't just run aground solo, they missed all the checks and balances against each other, and TOTALLED A MINESWEEPER in the process.

It isn't casting stones, it is simple fact that for reasons which have not been passed on to us, someone helixed the pooch, big time.

Now of course, most of us have the luxury of deciding we're just not going into shoal or uncertain waters. Until and unless someone speaks up as to what was happening? Yeah, Pooch. Helixed. Totally.

They were not in combat operations. There is no excuse to endanger and loose a ship that way outside of combat.

And by the way, the bill for that little mishap will be split up and added to the taxes for every US taxpayer this year. We're entitled to an explanation.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 19:16   #279
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Don't know about that. I was in the navy and remember the first time I was in charge of maintaining the course plot. I was really the engineroom supervisor and had no idea what I was doing.

One of these days I'll tell you how a multi-billion dollar nuclear submarine was going south for 4 hours when it was suppose to be heading north (basically lost at sea).
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 19:25   #280
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,872
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Living in Subic, I hate to see our US Navy visitors come to grief on a reef.
They are good people, doing a tough and by its very nature, secretive job.

The vast majority of the locals greatly appreciated US Naval presence and their gifts of old jets, equipment and training to help them defend their land and offshore rights.

The issue of ‘Bad Charts’ is purely a legal red herring as the NAMRIA charts are notoriously full of clerical errors and of worst possible quality. It is just part of the Political legal defense from those with a personal agenda against the USA.

The accident will obviously damage a few careers and can only be attributed to very poor bridge management.
It is not anything more than that.
The good news is that by May/June when the light wind transition period is in force, the US will have cleaned off every piece of debris from that small part of the reef and life will go on.
I am sure the officers got a fair hearing.

The Navy has done a great job removing the pieces and the weather is now perfect for divers to remove any debris left on the floor.
This will be completed by June and by the end of 2013 Typhoon season starting in July, mother nature will have re-seeded the grounding site.

With North Korea making all kinds of stupid noises, lots of US military action in Subic now and this has silenced most of the anti-US bashing from local political opposition and extremists.

Bottom line, the Philippines will receive all kinds of military perks from the US as unspoken compensation and those who can see the big picture will be grateful for their friendship.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 06:04   #281
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,941
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

A recent news summary with some video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?
It's a long thread, but back here are my reasons for wanting to know exactly what happened. In particular, I want to know the truth of the Filipinos' allegation that reef park rangers radioed the Guardian to tell them that they were entering restricted waters without authorization, but the Guardian bridge just blew them off.

There's a bit more behind this than 'chart error' or having a bad day.

I agree that overall the US Navy is a welcome presence in the Philippines, and that everyone will get past this.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 06:55   #282
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,633
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
In particular, I want to know the truth of the Filipinos' allegation that reef park rangers radioed the Guardian to tell them that they were entering restricted waters without authorization, but the Guardian bridge just blew them off.
This part of the story lacks a ring of believability. Does it make sense that park rangers have a radar station, and spend their days watching for vessels to stray into a restricted area? If the story originated in the Filipino media, then it is most likely BS - a lot of "newspapers" there are not above manufacturing "facts".
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 07:33   #283
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,941
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
This part of the story lacks a ring of believability. Does it make sense that park rangers have a radar station, and spend their days watching for vessels to stray into a restricted area? If the story originated in the Filipino media, then it is most likely BS - a lot of "newspapers" there are not above manufacturing "facts".
It was a credible enough account that Australian, UK, France, US and many other news agencies picked it up. This is the Philipines' most important reef diving location with a legislated 10 nm exclusion zone, a staffed base, patrol boats and frequent authorized boat traffic. What part of having radar/AIS/VHF etc doesn't make sense?

Anyway, the alleged communication is easily proven, or disproven, by the Guardian's own logs. I'm taking US silence on that allegation as confirmation.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 10:41   #284
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

"There's a bit more behind this than"
Let's see now, the folks in charge are the USN. Oh, wait, that's the same folks who lied about the USS Peublo, and covered up the lies behind the Gulf of Tonkin incident for so many years. One being a matter of national security perhaps, the other being simply a matter of political expediency perhaps crossing into treason and fraud.

Convenient that they chose a ship which is so easy to scrap.

Perhaps they were chasing North Korean minisubmarines (which have been found in South Korean waters) and just didn't want to alarm anyone. Or maybe they were in hot pursuit of whoever stole the strawberry ice cream?!

So I'll go with the easy answer, that wreckers put up false lights and led them aground. That's the kindest answer that can be found, right?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 18:54   #285
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,633
Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
It was a credible enough account that Australian, UK, France, US and many other news agencies picked it up. This is the Philipines' most important reef diving location with a legislated 10 nm exclusion zone, a staffed base, patrol boats and frequent authorized boat traffic. What part of having radar/AIS/VHF etc doesn't make sense?

Anyway, the alleged communication is easily proven, or disproven, by the Guardian's own logs. I'm taking US silence on that allegation as confirmation.
From: http://tubbatahareef.org/wp/manageme...e_park_rangers

Quote:
The ranger station perched on the southernmost tip of Tubbataha’s North Atoll is home to a combined team of 10-12 men from the Philippine Navy, Philippine Coast Guard, Municipality of Cagayancillo and the TMO. Stationed for two months at a time, 130 kilometres from the nearest inhabited islands, their job is to protect the park from illegal activities including fishing and collection of other marine life such as top shells (Trochus niloticus).

Their work includes:
  • Regular patrols around the park
  • Conducting scientific research and monitoring
  • Briefing visitors during the dive season
  • Surface and underwater cleanups
  • Reporting and responding to unusual incidents, like crown-of-thorns starfish infestations
Don't mention radar watches and I don't think it likely they would be doing a regular patrol in the middle of the night.

As to credible news agencies picking up less-than-credible stories - the Globe and Mail ran this story - Canada checks report of deaths from warship's wake - The Globe and Mail This was a follow-up article; the original article was a whole lot more accusatory, but is not available online.

It was taken from a Filipino tabloid - the legitimate papers in the Phillipines didn't run the story, because there wasn't a lick of truth to it.
__________________

__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts, navy

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.