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Old 30-01-2013, 17:23   #181
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Well, what you see held up; the bottom hasn't. Cold molded epoxy.
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Old 31-01-2013, 08:15   #182
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

It's held up by coral heads at the moment.
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Old 31-01-2013, 08:20   #183
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

In case you haven't seen these photos...
BBC News - In pictures: Grounded US Navy ship to be dismantled
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Old 31-01-2013, 08:47   #184
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Hmmm. I wonder if the crew gets to wear an ear ring now? Or is that only for a ship lost in combat?
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Old 31-01-2013, 08:53   #185
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Could be very, very costly.

US Navy ship 'ignored reef warnings' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Makes you wonder what the US response would be if a Chinese Naval vessel entered American waters in World Heritage Area that was off-limits to navigation, ignored all radio warnings and then grounded.

I think this shows a complete lack of respect by the US Navy.

I think this shows a "plan" by the USN...I just heard that they are going to cut it up and haul it away...
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:11   #186
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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That's OK! Some day the Chinese are going to rule the oceans and you'll have to answer to them. >>> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf
How could they "rule the oceans" when most of there capabilites are purchased from Russia? They cant even build the engines for there jet aircraft ,that too is imported from Russia! I belive this is a case of "when weak act strong" and for the USA ,"when strong act weak"!
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:19   #187
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Lets all be thankful that measures were taken to prevent any spills. Obviously some one screwed up and they're going to pay.

If this were in US waters it would have been pulled off within a day or two. In PI they don't have the resources for such immediate response and it takes time to get vessels in the area to do the work.
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:22   #188
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

No, with the Chinese it is more like thousands of years of experience at "face" posturing. This is a culture where you greet strangers who ring your doorbell by asking if they've eaten yet. (I wonder if Mormons prosyletizing China ever have to buy lunch?)

And a culture where once it was the emperor, now it is someone else, but you don't get conflicting orders from a President and Congress (two houses! two parties!) that tell you to engine engines forward and astern, at full throttle, at the same time.

Not too long ago Nixon went to China. The Chinese were proud to have constructed western-style toilets for his retinue to use on the trip. Except, one toilet seat was carved from sumac wood, resulting in, you guessed it, posion sumac rash on some diplomatic butts. The apology was totally straight-faced, the incident totally accidental.
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:23   #189
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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How could they "rule the oceans" when most of there capabilites are purchased from Russia? They cant even build the engines for there jet aircraft ,that too is imported from Russia! I belive this is a case of "when weak act strong" and for the USA ,"when strong act weak"!
Time will tell. But hopefully, not in my life time (maybe another score).
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:47   #190
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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If this were in US waters it would have been pulled off within a day or two.
If this was in US waters, they wouldn't so readily have steamed through a known restricted area.
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:49   #191
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I find it interesting how many people blast the US Navy without factual information...

We do know the ship is on a reef;, that they can't get it off; and that they are going to scrap it in place...

We don't know how many lookouts were stationed, if there were any mechanical failures, if the moon was up, if they had IR or other night vision divices in use or what their "Official Mission" was...

There will be an accident inviestigation and in the tradition of the US Navy, the Captain will be held accountable.

Until then this is all speculation and arm chair quarterbacking....
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Old 31-01-2013, 09:58   #192
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Until then this is all speculation and arm chair quarterbacking....
Quarterbacking! Glad you brought the subject up. How 'bout those Niners?

First the World Series, then the Super Bowl, and soon the Americas Cup.

It's feeling good these days to have "San Francisco" painted in 3" high letters on my transom.
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Old 31-01-2013, 10:02   #193
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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There will be an accident inviestigation and in the tradition of the US Navy, the Captain will be held accountable.

Until then this is all speculation and arm chair quarterbacking....
Of course you're right, but c'mon, sometimes it's an easy call:

- UNESCO World Heritage Site
- best Filipino reef-diving site, regular tourism
- 10-nm exclusion zone
- radar-visible
- there was a friggin navigation light on the thing
- (allegedly) they were warned by radio that they were infringing, the warning was acknowledged, but they refused to comply.

Did we need to wait for the hearing to have a pretty accurate opinion about the Costa Concordia?

Whether due to charts, orders or inattention, there was a serious deficiency somewhere. What if it had been a battleship instead of a minesweeper? I take no particular pleasure in dumping on the USN, but let's not be part of any PR manipulation either.
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Old 31-01-2013, 10:04   #194
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

del-
In US waters, it still might not get pulled off so quickly. When someone goes aground either on a reef or protected sea-grass in Florida? No quick pull-off, they have to show that they are removing the vessel in a way that causes minimal damage and get approval before they can salvage (remove) it. Can't just pull it back off. And then, of course, you get the bill for restoring the damages.

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"there was a friggin navigation light on the thing"
So you say. Breakers in the UK and in the US were known to set up false lights, to run ships aground so they could "salvage" the remains and cargo. That would be a cheap easy shot for Islamists looking to continue ruining the US reputation in the Pacific. Coupla hundred bucks, take a light down, put up a new one on a pole, voila, look at the damage you can do!
Unlikely, sure, but easily possible and historically done many many times in many many places. Perfect strategy in places where the lights are small and cheap, the charts easily distrusted, and the crews are going to trust their eyes over the instruments.
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Old 31-01-2013, 10:13   #195
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Which do you think causes more damage? Pulling it off ASAP, or letting it sit there in the waves pounding away at the reef?

Those assessments are designed to fill the bank accounts of environmentalists. I've work for the government and have gone thru the PC training.
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