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Old 23-01-2013, 07:54   #151
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I wouldn't be so sure. Here's the top of the statue of liberty just using google. Imagine what the gov has at their disposal.
Then there are the drones.


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Note you can't see the lady's face
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Old 23-01-2013, 08:09   #152
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Satellites don't always look straight down.

Here's an interesting link on this drift.

SpeedSpike – Speeding Tickets From Outer Space | Impact Lab

"Designed to monitor drivers across a geographic area rather than on a specific stretch of road, SpeedSpike will use GPS signals to determine average speeds over entire journeys then combine that data with spy cameras capable of reading license plates to ID the vehicle in question."
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Old 23-01-2013, 16:22   #153
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by sidmon View Post
Might add too, the South China Sea has been long known for its navigation hazards...



What it took to the get the Frank Knox off Pratus reef here
THAT was a cool read! Thanks!
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Old 23-01-2013, 16:32   #154
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Haze gray and not underway... :[
Hehe...
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Old 23-01-2013, 16:33   #155
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

It doesn't surprise me in the least that some nautical charts are off by miles. In my fairly recent travels down to the southwest Caribbean and the San Blas Islands we found reefs seriously misplotted, small islands that were charted that were now submerged, fairly major harbors that were charted significant fractions of a mile different than the GPS showed, and other places with very inaccurate soundings. In quite a few cases we were using charts based on 18th century surveys. The electronic charts in some areas were next to useless. The world is not perfectly charted, and we all have to take that into account.
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Old 23-01-2013, 20:11   #156
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Satellites don't always look straight down.

Here's an interesting link on this drift.

SpeedSpike – Speeding Tickets From Outer Space | Impact Lab

"Designed to monitor drivers across a geographic area rather than on a specific stretch of road, SpeedSpike will use GPS signals to determine average speeds over entire journeys then combine that data with spy cameras capable of reading license plates to ID the vehicle in question."
Hmmm...

They fail to mention where the GPS signals that they are using come from. I'm not aware of such sources in normal automobiles. Perhaps some commercial vehicles have such signals transmitted but not so for general usage autos. And of course some mobile phones do so, too, but that is circumventable for those who wish to speed unhindered.

Now if cars were fitted with AIS...

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 23-01-2013, 20:28   #157
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Satellites don't always look straight down.

Here's an interesting link on this drift.

SpeedSpike – Speeding Tickets From Outer Space | Impact Lab

"Designed to monitor drivers across a geographic area rather than on a specific stretch of road, SpeedSpike will use GPS signals to determine average speeds over entire journeys then combine that data with spy cameras capable of reading license plates to ID the vehicle in question."
Satellites don't always look straight down - they do always look down. Your link talks about combining GPS with terrestrial cameras to read the plates.
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Old 23-01-2013, 22:02   #158
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I personally think that post is someone's pie in the sky dreaming.
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Old 23-01-2013, 23:57   #159
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Originally Posted by sidmon View Post
Account of the "Knox on the Rocks"
Thanks for that! Good read.
And a bit of a reminder on potential DR miscalculations.
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Old 24-01-2013, 04:05   #160
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

I believe the point of my semi-rant was lost in the minutia of being able to read a license plate from above.

If we are spending significant tax dollars on all sorts of reconnaissance and "research" gear, it is rather embarrassing when the Admiral in charge of navigation advises the most powerful fleet ever that their charts are wrong.

Just this humble taxpayers observation.

Bill
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Old 24-01-2013, 11:29   #161
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Coincidence? Er-lie in the mornin'?
Navy: Random alcohol tests for sailors in US - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL

Judge for yourself.
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Old 24-01-2013, 11:39   #162
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pirate Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

Well, thar goes the run rations!
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Old 24-01-2013, 11:45   #163
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

"They fail to mention where the GPS signals that they are using come from."
Jim, you seem to suffer from the urban myth that GPS devices transmit signals. They NEVER do, the only GPS signals or transmissions come from the satellites.
With that bit of foundation in place, the obvious answer is that the system you read about takes pictures of license plates, and uses a local GPS receiver to determine where the camera is. Then it compares successive reports for the same license plate.
Using GPS in that application is superfluous, since the cameras are probably fixed on signposts and overheads and the position could be coded in during installation.

There are other systems being deployed to count traffic and traffic speed, one is using Bluetooth signals from passing cars for the same purpose. Each BT transceiver has a unique ID, so that system just pings passing cars asking "Is there anybody there?" and recording the time and ID of every BT transmitter that passes under it. Phones, computers, cars, whatever passes by. No camera needed, and of course that only polls a certain percent of the traffic, but it would also work.

The common myth that GPS devices transmit a signal, the Hollywood "We put a GPS tracker on him...", is totally bogus. Trackers don't transmit a GPS signal, they forward it via a cell phone network or other system. GPS "devices" don't transmit anything at all, except perhaps sometimes an incidental harmonic which is pretty much very short range and useless.

SAILORS DRINKING?!
Imagine that, sailors...drinking and swearing like sailors. I hope no one in the USN sees "Judge Dread", they might wind up installing the machines that automatically give you a ticket for swearing, too.
Maybe they'll start to ask what is wrong with the entire recruiting procedure, if they're recruiting folks who can't stay sober on the job. Hmmm....
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Old 24-01-2013, 13:18   #164
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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Sweeper skippers are lieutenants who will have had 60,000 sea miles. He wouldn't be on watch unless called by the OOD at 2:30 am which if there is any concern at any hour he is called.
The whole bridge team screwed up and will be held accountable but for all the talk here, most haven't anywhere near the sea time and while its easy and appropriate to Monday morning quarterback this; any one with any real sea time knows that we've all faced hazards where we could also be in the news like these guys. Navy ships are always out and hundreds are putting in millions of miles each year (safely).
Actually MCM’s are commanded by Lieutenant Commanders (O-4).
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/mcm5/Pages/bio1.aspx

LCDR Rice had been commanding officer (CO) for about a month. Prior to that he had been the executive officer (XO) and been on board since October 2011. I believe that on a MCM the XO is also the navigator.

I have never heard the term Officer of the Watch used for the officer in charge on the bridge. They are referred to as Officer of the Deck or OD/OOD. But I spent my time in submarines so I may be wrong about the "target" navy.

MCM’s are “small boys” with a crew of around 80 so I doubt the bridge team is the same size as on larger ships.

Seems like there will be a lot more to this story.
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Old 24-01-2013, 18:05   #165
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Re: U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

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I have never heard the term Officer of the Watch used for the officer in charge on the bridge. They are referred to as Officer of the Deck or OD/OOD. But I spent my time in submarines so I may be wrong about the "target" navy.
British and descendant navies' terminology vice USN's.
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