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Old 06-05-2012, 18:38   #91
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Exactly true, but one must remember that the pilot is intimately familiar with his pilotage area, that he has made the same trip numerous times, that he knows from previous trips that the plotter's chart is accurate and up to date, that he has other professional seamen providing additional lookouts and that he too will be carefully examining the real world outside the bridge windows.

A far cry from Joe Yottie making up on a new landfall...

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All true, but that's why i added "that's not to say all the other safe navigation procedures are not been followed" .....

There is nothing wrong with “Joe Yottie” using a chart plotter to assist him/her as long as they are not totally reliant on it.....my point being.....to totally dismiss them is just silly....

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Old 07-05-2012, 05:00   #92
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

All you salt running in your veins types!

Far as I know there aren't more people running aground etc now in the age of GPS/chartplotters than back in the "old days". I would dare say there are less!
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:07   #93
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Tell that to the crew of the Costa Concordia.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:40   #94
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Tell that to the crew of the Costa Concordia.
Is your point that no matter how good your system is it doesn't overcome being stupid? If so I agree but don't know how not having modern equipment prevents being just as stupid.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:03   #95
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Nope, wasn't a point at all. I've been lurking here for sometime being amused by your flippant answers to blogs , so I thought I'd just send one your way.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:42   #96
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

you need to try harder then as I feel my comment about using chartplotters on this thread was as good as most of the longer comments on the subject
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Old 07-05-2012, 19:32   #97
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Automation begets stupidity or more correctly ignorance (ignorance we can fix, stupidity is permant. With a machine doing all the thin king for you, takreing out the "work"....you don't learn the principles of navicgation, how things work and why. With your technological "crutch" removed you are lost...literaly. Gadgets are extremly powerful tools thar perform a tremendous number of navigational tasks. More and more functions of life are becoming reliant on technology.....to be able to leave that all behind is actually quite refreshing.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:29   #98
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Gadgets are extremly powerful tools thar perform a tremendous number of navigational tasks. More and more functions of life are becoming reliant on technology.....to be able to leave that all behind is actually quite refreshing.
Doesn´t mean you are reliant on the gadgets. You are allowed to do both

And quite often the Mk1 eyeball comes up on these sorts of threads as the most reliable source of info, well i think I got a raw deal on mine, they keep seeing what they want to see. Nice to have a few more sources of info just the check that the bouy is the one your eyes want it to be.

As ever on forums the question gets polorised almost straight away. Even the idea of necessary against a luxury is a personal thing.

Tech is nice. Occasionally some stupid people will use it to get into trouble. So it goes. If you don´t like it don´t use it. I´ll stick with opencpn and google earth being there if I want a look.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:38   #99
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

I also salt in the fact in these discusssions that there is a "vintage" of sailor that was out there and is now not out there. He may be a luddite just barely able to log into CF and has recently "mastered" sending an email to his grandaughter...

This person is likely deathly afraid of chart plotters and gps...
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:46   #100
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

A chartplotter will tell you where you are - 99.99% of the time.

A chartplotter will never tell you it is a good idea to be there - 100% of the time!


A chartplotter does not care whether you live or die.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:21   #101
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
More and more functions of life are becoming reliant on technology.....to be able to leave that all behind is actually quite refreshing.
There is a lot of pleasure and satisfaction taking a sun sight and with nothing else other than than an optical instrument and some mathematics locating your place on the globe. Even with costal navigation a tight three point fix will always bring a smile to a navigators face. I think a lot off old time navigators also like impressing less experienced crew. Anyone can use a chartplotter but it takes real skill to take an accurate sun sight, ergo it must be better.

The same argument is seen in car circles. Old sports cars are great fun to drive and take more skill to drive quickly than a modern car. This blinds some fanatics into believing they are faster and safer than their modern equivalents.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:22   #102
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
A chartplotter will never tell you it is a good idea to be there - 100% of the time!


A chartplotter does not care whether you live or die.
neither does a compass or a dot on a DR chart
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:03   #103
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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neither does a compass or a dot on a DR chart

Difference is the automation and the effects it has on the cognitive process...

Its more than just a few idiots.


"Although the VMS (Voyage Management System) was not approved for use as the primary means of navigation, the officers on Pride of Canterbury were using it as if it was, despite the fact that many of them, including the chief officer, who was in charge at the time of the accident, were not fully trained in its use."

"The wreck was clearly displayed on chart BA 1828, but because the bridge team were not systematically fixing the vessel's position on the chart, it did not assist them in detecting the obstruction."


Variations of the same problem here, here, here, and looking likely here

Bottom line:

Blow it all off with a flippant wave of hubris about how you are too superior to ever succumb to such stupidity if you wish...

But don't be surprised as the next puzzling event happens to some hapless -up until then always known to be competent- crew with their boat on the rocks, and everyone is shocked and asking,

"How could this happen?!?!??!?!"

Until the problem is recognized for what it is and addressed, it will happen again.

As you automate your navigation...

Make it a deliberate and recurring point to stay connected to the basics and don't let that box start doing all the thinking for you...

And of course, before you let that box plot a course for you, make sure you have gone through one to learn how to properly navigate and fix your position.

Thats not being an old salt afraid of new technology.

Thats being a prudent 21st Century mariner.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:10   #104
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Geez. Didn't we already go through this, ad nauseum?

Why Integrate the Autopilot ?

That thread ran 25 pages!

The OP simply wanted to know if a chartplotter was a nice-to-have or must-have, and acknowledged that the question has been answered.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:14   #105
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

guess one could blame all the old shipwrecks prior to GPS on charts/compass/sextant if we are going to blame the GPS as the cause of the ones after chartplotters were invented

in the end it isn't the GPS or the paper chart, it is the sailor
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