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Old 27-06-2012, 03:47   #196
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
....you cannot be serious.... unless you are talking about clicking on a paper chart that is, that i would agree with...
That is what I ment yes.
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Old 29-06-2012, 06:28   #197
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

in most european nothing is required in a privat vessel as long as you do not carry passengers and as long nothing happens. i talked to my insurance guy it is very clear that if you run aground you will have trouble if you dont have actual offical paper charts on board.
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Old 29-06-2012, 12:39   #198
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Maybe you guys in the good old US of A had aircon in all your cars in the early '80's but let me assure you that here in good old Blighty, we certainly did not! It was only available on luxury brands (there's that word again...) like Jaguar, etc. and even then it was usualy an extra cost option. I actually owned a Jaguar XJ6 that was built in 1984, it had leather, metallic paint, electric windows, mirrors, roof and even cruise control but NO aircon!
As for TV's, I didn't have a colour TV in my room until I was 14 and I was born in 1970, you do the maths.
I was born in 1961 and during the 70s the whole family would gather in the living room to watch "Wild Kingdom" and Wonderful World of Disney" on our only television. No remote control! and our rabbit ears never seemed up to the task. I didn't have a TV in the bedroom until I was 48.

We had a station Wagon with a kickass air conditioner in 1974. Central air in the house too.

Please forgive my stroll down memory lane.
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Old 29-06-2012, 13:27   #199
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by virginia boy View Post
I was born in 1961 and during the 70s the whole family would gather in the living room to watch "Wild Kingdom" and Wonderful World of Disney" on our only television. No remote control! and our rabbit ears never seemed up to the task. I didn't have a TV in the bedroom until I was 48.

We had a station Wagon with a kickass air conditioner in 1974. Central air in the house too.

Please forgive my stroll down memory lane.
Air con... navigation...
I must be getting dim in my old age as I am having trouble seeing the connection??
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Old 29-06-2012, 14:50   #200
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
Air con... navigation...
I must be getting dim in my old age as I am having trouble seeing the connection??
I believe that was referencing a post back around #183 or thereabouts.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:47   #201
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Air con... navigation...
I must be getting dim in my old age as I am having trouble seeing the connection??
It was an example I was trying to make to say that I don't consider a chartplotter a 'luxury' anymore. Just as aircon was an expensive option in cars and homes, now nearly everyone has it as standard.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:54   #202
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Use GPS, but don't depend on it. Keep an hourly mark on a paper chart, and be able to navigate using paper/pencil/protractor. Quite apart from equipment failure, you never know when the military are going to switch it off, or put an offset in.
There are other GPS systems working independent from US military. Hopefully Galileo will be working next year (or so). But Russia, China and in the very near future India will have their own systems, indeed because of the independency of US whims.
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Old 05-07-2012, 13:29   #203
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Originally Posted by Stumble
The idea of going offshore without a chart plotter just doesn't work anymore.
Neither the oceans nor the celestial bodies have changed during the past three decades, and traditional (non push button) navigation still works as well as it ever did.

If someone prefers to use GPS for offshore navigation, that is certainly a viable option and that choice does not imply that they are in some sense a lesser mariner. However, there are alternatives and - with all respect - categorical statements to the contrary are simply incorrect.
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Old 05-07-2012, 14:32   #204
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Neither the oceans nor the celestial bodies have changed during the past three decades, and traditional (non push button) navigation still works as well as it ever did.

If someone prefers to use GPS for offshore navigation, that is certainly a viable option and that choice does not imply that they are in some sense a lesser mariner. However, there are alternatives and - with all respect - categorical statements to the contrary are simply incorrect.
Now there's a categorical statement that I agree with!!

Cheers,

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Old 05-07-2012, 15:11   #205
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Aside from mounted, dedicated chart plotters that have costs running in the thousands, the "poor mans plotter" (laptop with PC connection to GPS) can be trashed simply by sliding off the bunk and/or something landing on it (not too mention moisture and battery failure).
Sextants are not as accurate as GPSs, but you don't have to be that incredibly accurate at sea anyway. People who have relied too heavily on GPSs accuracy have ended up on the rocks because they were not quite as accurate as they thought (friend of mine ended up on a reef that way).
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Old 05-07-2012, 15:24   #206
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by Svanen View Post
Neither the oceans nor the celestial bodies have changed during the past three decades, and traditional (non push button) navigation still works as well as it ever did.
Although I agree with your sentiments - am not entirely sure that is totally true.
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:37   #207
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Hi David, Please elaborate. What do you believe may have changed (besides the availability of GPS)?
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:44   #208
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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... People who have relied too heavily on GPSs accuracy have ended up on the rocks because they were not quite as accurate as they thought (friend of mine ended up on a reef that way).
People relying on GPS accuracy are forgetting that the most of survey data for charts throughout the world pre-dates GPS and is not as accurate - especially, in the Pacific. It doesn't really matter offshore, but it can make a big difference when making landfall.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:51   #209
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

And not only in the Pacific. Most european charts (Danish for example) are based on data that was accumulated in the 1800, when they sailed back and forth with 100 meter intervals and cast the lead. This means that while you can be reasonable sure what depth you have when you are on the line where they cast - in between these lines (100 meters apart) it is only a guess. There can be shoals, rocks ,wrecks you name it.

They are recharging the bottom using side scanning sonar but this takes time.

Virtually all european charts are the same as the Danish. I expect most american charts are also.

GPS doesn't help her.

If I recall, charts prior to WGS84 have, in some cases, a large discrepancy to WGS84 charts in regards to islands actual location. Many GPS plotters have based some of their plots on pre-WGS84 data, meaning the plotter will show you where you are, but guess what? The island isn't there - it's up to several hundred meters away
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:13   #210
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Hi David, Please elaborate. What do you believe may have changed (besides the availability of GPS)?
"Neither the oceans nor the celestial bodies have changed during the past three decades"

Was perhaps being a bit picky - and am not claiming to be an expert on the ology end of anything, but I thought the celestial bodies were always moving around a bit, same as the earth - admittedly predictably (I think )......Oceans? I think they mostly be in the same place , but the edges do change a bit over time - always something new to bump into, some places that more common than in others.
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