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Old 25-06-2012, 18:13   #181
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Ah, my bad... I just googled and found that there are iPad1's with 3G which is the module that also has the GPS chip. It might even have the compass too then.

ciao!
Nick.
I think one of the things that confuse folks about the word "assisted" is that the machine can get assistance from wifi or cellular if itishaving problems acquiring satts say inside of buildings or in a city with many tall buildings, etc. it does not need or will even use such assistance if it has clear views of the sky, like another gps device. You can certainly turn your 3G off on a 3G equipped iPad and you can not connect to a wifi device and still get gps data. And yes my iPad has compass function.

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Old 25-06-2012, 18:39   #182
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
What is on a paper chart that would tell me any more info when I'm in the middle of an ocean?
Nothing. His point was that the only use for a plotter when well off shore would be to give you a GPS fix. The graphical interface would be pretty much redundant as there is nothing to see. Therefore, a simple GPS reciever would work just as well.

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Are electronic chart plotters not detailed enough?
They are now VERY detailed and have the added bonus of being able to zoom in and out to suit. Very usefull when you want an overview of your entire route or to zoom in when entering an unknown marina or anchorage.

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Paper charts seem time consuming and complex to me when on a moving boat.
Time consuming? Time is something that boats have plenty of.
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..... I'm sure they make some great GPS devices, but the digital maps aren't nearly as detailed as the paper map.
Don't even think that a modern plotter is comparable to the aveage land based GPS. Your in car satnav will have a VERY basic graphical representation of the roads etc. In fact, they need to be basic so you can safely read and understand them at a glance when driving. A boat is a different story, you have TONS of spare time and reaction time to fully take in the detail offered and you'll have much more detail than any paper chart can offer. For example, on most plotters (Open CPN included), if you click on a specific feature like a lighthouse, warning marker, etc. it will open a new window giving you all relavent info, height, rate of lighthouse flashes, etc. No paper chart can do that.
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Old 25-06-2012, 18:53   #183
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

Simple fact is, time has moved on. Remember 20 years ago when a mobile phone was a 'luxury'? Now kids have them! 30 years ago colour TV was still a luxury and if you wanted aircon in your car it had to be a rolls Royce.

Huh? 1982?
every car had air conditioning by then; you probably couldn't buy a Tv that wasn't color. Maybe 1962 would be more close dude.
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Old 25-06-2012, 19:31   #184
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Originally Posted by seahag
Simple fact is, time has moved on. Remember 20 years ago when a mobile phone was a 'luxury'? Now kids have them! 30 years ago colour TV was still a luxury and if you wanted aircon in your car it had to be a rolls Royce.

Huh? 1982?
every car had air conditioning by then; you probably couldn't buy a Tv that wasn't color. Maybe 1962 would be more close dude.
Ahh... The good ol' days

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1982.html
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Old 26-06-2012, 06:50   #185
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by seahag View Post
Simple fact is, time has moved on. Remember 20 years ago when a mobile phone was a 'luxury'? Now kids have them! 30 years ago colour TV was still a luxury and if you wanted aircon in your car it had to be a rolls Royce.

Huh? 1982?
every car had air conditioning by then; you probably couldn't buy a Tv that wasn't color. Maybe 1962 would be more close dude.
Aircon in all cars by 1982? Not in the UK! probably the majority by now - but by no means all. I have never owned a car with aircon! Admittedly, probably 10 years plus since I owned my own car - and it was probably at least 10 years old (I can't even remember what it was!).

They were certainly still selling small B/w Tv's in the UK back in the 80's......that probably linked to the TV Licence fee (that pays for the BBC) being cheaper for B/w.

I hope that one day the whole chart table would be a chartplotter screen!.......and cheap .....and maybe linked in to a small (24"?!) repeater at the helm.
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Old 26-06-2012, 11:41   #186
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by seahag View Post
Simple fact is, time has moved on. Remember 20 years ago when a mobile phone was a 'luxury'? Now kids have them! 30 years ago colour TV was still a luxury and if you wanted aircon in your car it had to be a rolls Royce.

Huh? 1982?
every car had air conditioning by then; you probably couldn't buy a Tv that wasn't color. Maybe 1962 would be more close dude.
Maybe you guys in the good old US of A had aircon in all your cars in the early '80's but let me assure you that here in good old Blighty, we certainly did not! It was only available on luxury brands (there's that word again...) like Jaguar, etc. and even then it was usualy an extra cost option. I actually owned a Jaguar XJ6 that was built in 1984, it had leather, metallic paint, electric windows, mirrors, roof and even cruise control but NO aircon!

As for TV's, I didn't have a colour TV in my room until I was 14 and I was born in 1970, you do the maths.

Anyway, this is splitting hairs, surely you can see the point I was making. Picking holes in the exact items and dates is hardly productive. I'm simply saying that a chartplotter is NOT a luxury anymore. Anyone who can afford a boat, even a small one, can afford one.
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Old 26-06-2012, 12:31   #187
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by simonmd View Post
For example, on most plotters (Open CPN included), if you click on a specific feature like a lighthouse, warning marker, etc. it will open a new window giving you all relavent info, height, rate of lighthouse flashes, etc. No paper chart can do that.
That's a bad example; I have both a paper chart and a widescreen, touchscreen, all the bells and whistles plotter in front of me. A glance at a light house on the paper chart and I see e.g. Fl.3.5s17m6M which tells that the light is white, flashes every 3.5 seconds is 17m high and has a nominal range of 6 nautical miles.

To get that same information on the plotter or computer I have to make sure the chart screen is selected, move the cursor over the light, press enter then maybe select light characteristics from the menu and press enter again, the resulting popup blocks my view of the five lights on the same headland. Whereas on the paper chart I can see all of them and all of their characteristics at a glance.

A plotter in the main will not give you more information than a paper chart and it may be harder to get to; however that only applies if we only talk about charts. Of course a plotter can give you satellite and air photo overlays, tides at the push of a button, current flow and direction, moonstate etc. etc.. It'll give you a continuously updating line showing your course over ground, it may also show heading, tack angle, lay lines bla bla bla. You can slap on the radar overlay to see if the chart is accurate or not.. Pop up the sonar window and check depth, bottom hardness, water temperature...Lovely tools indeed.

All that can be done on paper charts but it take work, and tables and books etc..

So for quick situational awareness, inshore, a plotter is great. my original comment was in the offshore situation where a chart of your section of ocean can show you a lot of information at a glance that is arguably more of a fiddle to find on a plotter.

The problem is that they are a all you eggs in one basket system. If my MFD (plotter) goes down I loose not just the charts, but also radar and sonar. For a cruising boat offshore they consume a lot of power.

I prefer a good software chart programe to any of the plotters that I have tried because I don't like the ergonomics of the plotters. Having a proper keyboard and a mouse or better a trackball (mice take on a life of their own at sea!!) is so much more comfortable to use. But again there are downsides , not robust or very waterproof unless you spend a lot of money, difficult to use at the helm! Pros - easy to use, cheap hardware, easy to upgrade, customisable etc. etc..

Horse for courses; you pays your money and takes your choice (or your chances).

Software (PC and chips for plotters) charts are undoubtably cheaper, or for those of you in the US, NZ, Brazil and a couple of other places free.

Nothing better than sitting around in the saloon with a glass of wine and some charts on the table planning tomorrow's trip, next years voyage or whatever... that doesn't work with a plotter

my opinions of course
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Old 26-06-2012, 12:41   #188
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Nothing better than sitting around in the saloon with a glass of wine and some charts on the table planning tomorrow's trip, next years voyage or whatever... that doesn't work with a plotter
Funnily enough I was doing that just a few munites ago, but with an iPad, much better than lots of paper charts, I can zoom Into the anchorages and see what it's like, check the weather and put a google overlay to see if their are any shops nearby.
Technology is wonderful.
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Old 26-06-2012, 12:47   #189
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

I'll give you that.

I do that on deck with the iPad with the clients sometimes. Still prefer a chart at the table though.

If there is a shop nearby that's a good reason not to go to the anchorage of course... very useful!

But all that assumes cell coverage or wifi.. the interesting places don't have either
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Old 26-06-2012, 12:58   #190
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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If there is a shop nearby that's a good reason not to go to the anchorage of course... very useful!
I agree wholeheartedly the deserted anchorages are the best, untill you are down to yor last bottle of wine. Found my first big supermarket in last 6 months yesterday and got 6 dozen bottles.

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But all that assumes cell coverage or wifi.. the interesting places don't have either
If you haul the mifi up to the top of the mast you can get wifi via the phone network in a lot of remote places, but all the maps work without an Internet conection.
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Old 26-06-2012, 13:23   #191
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

I was reading on CF somewhere that the new chartplotters will have cellular capability built in so that they will automatically update charts,hazards,etc. as soon as you are back within cell range.About 2 years away?
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Old 27-06-2012, 01:13   #192
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

This discussion regarding paper charts seems to be flourishing on every forum about sailing. Here's a little bit of info:

If you sail into Danish waters, it is mandatory you have paper charts. Regardless of how many other electronic gadgets you have, the paper charts are required. I suspect that Denmark is not alone in this. Most european countries probably require the charts.

Anybody know?
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Old 27-06-2012, 02:54   #193
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Originally Posted by simonmd View Post
if you click on a specific feature like a lighthouse, warning marker, etc. it will open a new window giving you all relavent info, height, rate of lighthouse flashes, etc. No paper chart can do that.
....you cannot be serious.... unless you are talking about clicking on a paper chart that is, that i would agree with...
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Old 27-06-2012, 03:22   #194
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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....you cannot be serious.... unless you are talking about clicking on a paper chart that is, that i would agree with...

I want one of those displays like Tom Cruise had in Minority report
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Old 27-06-2012, 03:39   #195
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Re: To Plot, or Not ? Is a Chart Plotter a Luxury or a Necessity ?

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Most european countries probably require the charts.

Anybody know?
Fairly certain that isn't so in the UK. Under 13.7m UK is almost completely rule free, just the international ones re col regs etc.

Solas applies for passage planning, but that doesn't even have to be written down.
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