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View Poll Results: Keeping celestial nav skills alive
Never learned, too many sight reduction books to haul around 18 8.22%
Plan to learn, on the "to do list" 80 36.53%
Learned, but no longer practice 56 25.57%
Learned, but only practice to keep the skills 50 22.83%
The hubby/wife does it 1 0.46%
Learned, practice every chance for that perfect pin wheel 14 6.39%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20-02-2012, 20:47   #181
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Remote area phones?! I thought you guys had tam-tams and didgeridoos for that I must admit I have never seen one over here, but they do have boosters for iPhones... some kind of cradle you put the iPhone in which couples it to an external amplifier and antenna etc.

About the iPhone & sextant: the thing is that an iPhone or even iPad has so many uses that hardly nobody thinks about. I meet scores of people who don't know that an iPad can also be a Kindle, buying the same books from Amazon etc. I have started to put manuals for boat gear on my iPad, thousands upon thousands of pages all in there like it's nothing. Almanacs and sight reduction tables have been available for some time now and while checking up on it I found that sextant app. The sextant is the easy part... the sight reduction tables etc. is the tough part for most people. This is where these apps can help a lot.

ciao!
Nick.
No to the tam-tams and didgeridoos, we use trained kangaroos, they have a built in letterbox....

I have the Almanacs/sight tables on this laptop actually, don't have an ipod though...

My significant other does have an iPod though. A friend of ours was visiting some time ago who also has an iPod, they were discussing the merits of them when said friend asked me what i thought about them?.......well, before i could answer the love of my life said "forget about asking him he doesn’t have one, he's a Luddite".......wth

Then i googled Luddite.....

Johnno....
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Old 20-02-2012, 21:39   #182
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

Nick,

Thread-jack alert. What do you think of the Dashew's new direction, long, slender, industrial appearance, power cruisers? If he keeps incorporating all of his forward thinking concepts from all of his personal cruising experience, I'll bet it is one fine cruiser, engine and all.
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Old 20-02-2012, 21:48   #183
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Originally Posted by deckofficer
Nick,

Thread-jack alert. What do you think of the Dashew's new direction, long, slender, industrial appearance, power cruisers? If he keeps incorporating all of his forward thinking concepts from all of his personal cruising experience, I'll bet it is one fine cruiser, engine and all.
They are very popular, with many buyers and waiting lists etc. the hulls are much like that of his sailing designs. I'm not so into motorboats however... but am jealous about his Furuno searchlight sonar unit...

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 20-02-2012, 22:33   #184
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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They are very popular, with many buyers and waiting lists etc. the hulls are much like that of his sailing designs. I'm not so into motorboats however... but am jealous about his Furuno searchlight sonar unit...

ciao!
Nick.
Saw the picture of the retractable hull mounted unit, haven't found the write up yet, but while searching came across his choice of induction stove top. Brilliant minds think alike, I've wanted induction on my next boat. Then his gen set and inverter set up is quite advanced, load sharing so that the gen set runs at 80%, the inverter takes up the slack by syncing to the generators frequency. I am having a good time reading his web site.
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Old 20-02-2012, 23:42   #185
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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Jedi will do 20+ knots in 25 knots of wind; design speed is 26 knots with a hull speed just under 12 knots, so a fully planing design. I have found that many multi folks can't handle that and even less here on CF... so I don't tend to bring it up. Sundeer 64's have done 24-hour distances of 350+ nm. Artemis did 384 nm on a video I have. I will not admit that I ever did anything below 250nm/24h

But our best friends are multi folks! We can normally only buddy boat with multi's because they can keep up.. kind of

Some mono folks have even more trouble with this, like many Oyster owners and First47.7 also get worked up. The Oysters because they paid much more $$$ and the First's never considered meeting a mean fast ketch like us


ciao!
Nick.
+1
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Old 21-02-2012, 01:26   #186
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Jedi will do 20+ knots in 25 knots of wind; design speed is 26 knots with a hull speed just under 12 knots, so a fully planing design. I have found that many multi folks can't handle that and even less here on CF... so I don't tend to bring it up. Sundeer 64's have done 24-hour distances of 350+ nm. Artemis did 384 nm on a video I have. I will not admit that I ever did anything below 250nm/24h

But our best friends are multi folks! We can normally only buddy boat with multi's because they can keep up.. kind of

Some mono folks have even more trouble with this, like many Oyster owners and First47.7 also get worked up. The Oysters because they paid much more $$$ and the First's never considered meeting a mean fast ketch like us


ciao!
Nick.
All comes down to sail area versus displacement. Power to weight if you like.

But NEVER less than 250miles? Do you include motoring?
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Old 21-02-2012, 02:12   #187
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Re: The new and improved celestial navigation poll

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Now that is what you call directed marketing. Has anyone noticed the ad banner for this thread? It worked, I clicked on it and low and behold, that company has everything you need on CD for your computer, no need for all those book bound tables. So now I wish I could change my vote from "Learned, but no longer practice" to "Learned, but only practice to keep the skills". O-well.
If the reason for keeping the skills working is in case the lightning knocks out your GPS and the back-up in the metal box, should you not also be maintaining a paper means of calculations and a non-digital watch.

I have the sextant, and rapid sight reduction book, all I need is an almanac and add some additional watches into the metal box.
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Old 21-02-2012, 02:53   #188
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Re: The new and improved celestial navigation poll

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If the reason for keeping the skills working is in case the lightning knocks out your GPS and the back-up in the metal box, should you not also be maintaining a paper means of calculations and a non-digital watch.

I have the sextant, and rapid sight reduction book, all I need is an almanac and add some additional watches into the metal box.
Zzzziiiiinnnnngggg......See post 175.....
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Old 21-02-2012, 05:03   #189
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

All comes down to sail area versus displacement. Power to weight if you like.

But NEVER less than 250miles? Do you include motoring?
Never

But let me add that we were only outside the Caribbean once, when we bought the boat, and the slow no-wind sails have always lasted less than 24h

I rather not leave than motor, so we tend to sail a lot, but in the summer here in Panama there is no way around the engine for longer periods. All daysails.

Sundeers are very light but they also have little sail area. Much of the speed is from hull design and sail shape, both strictly forbidden by all race classification rules. Those guys hate Dashew designs

ciao!
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Old 21-02-2012, 06:14   #190
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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I just showed my wife the sextant and explained to her (briefly) how celestial navigation works. Her response:

"Sounds exhausting. No wonder everyone uses GPS."
I'm sorry, but I've got to dispute this again (apologizes to the wife, though).

Celestial is NOT DIFFICULT. If I can understand it, anyone can.

In skilled hands, with HO 249, it is 5 minutes from sight to intercept. For me, it takes a lot longer, but then, I'm not skilled at this (yet!)

Make the argument that you will never need to use it -- I can buy that. I might disagree, but you have a point ...

But, if you're saying it's too difficult, too fiddly, too much of a PITA to learn, you are might as well come right out and say you're too lazy for CN. What else about navigation are you too lazy for?
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Old 21-02-2012, 06:18   #191
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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Well, with the iPhone you can shoot a star or moon, but you can't make a phone call with a sextant... easy choice

ciao!
Nick.
But, if you're more than about 20nm offshore, you can neither navigate nor make a call with an iphone. On the other hand, you can still navigate with the sextant.
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Old 21-02-2012, 06:24   #192
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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But, if you're more than about 20nm offshore, you can neither navigate nor make a call with an iphone. On the other hand, you can still navigate with the sextant.
You, like so many, underestimate the iPhone once again :-) It has compass, GPS and 3D accelerometers aboard that function independent from any phone signal. These are not as accurate as primary navigation instruments for boats... but they will get you home when it's all you're left with

Using the sextant app, it becomes a sextant and thus it will help navigate further than 20nm offshore, however inaccurate because of no mirrors, diopters etc.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 21-02-2012, 06:47   #193
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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You, like so many, underestimate the iPhone once again :-) It has compass, GPS and 3D accelerometers aboard that function independent from any phone signal. These are not as accurate as primary navigation instruments for boats... but they will get you home when it's all you're left with

Using the sextant app, it becomes a sextant and thus it will help navigate further than 20nm offshore, however inaccurate because of no mirrors, diopters etc.

ciao!
Nick.
Nick, you can't have it both ways. First, you're saying that the give or take of a few nautical miles that you can get from two or more LOPs just isn't good enough. Then you say the iPhone is "not as accurate" as a sextant.

So, what exactly is your point?
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Old 21-02-2012, 07:30   #194
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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Nick, you can't have it both ways. First, you're saying that the give or take of a few nautical miles that you can get from two or more LOPs just isn't good enough. Then you say the iPhone is "not as accurate" as a sextant.

So, what exactly is your point?
I never talked about LOPs. I talked about an app that changes an iPhone into a sextant. You indicated that this would only work within 20nm offshore. Which is a mistake many make: all sensors inside the iPhone work normally without any phone signal. So, you can use the GPS, the compass, the celestial maps & charts and the sextant app no matter where you are... works in the middle of the Pacific too.

ciao!
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Old 21-02-2012, 08:06   #195
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Re: The New and Improved Celestial Navigation Poll

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I never talked about LOPs. I talked about an app that changes an iPhone into a sextant. You indicated that this would only work within 20nm offshore. Which is a mistake many make: all sensors inside the iPhone work normally without any phone signal. So, you can use the GPS, the compass, the celestial maps & charts and the sextant app no matter where you are... works in the middle of the Pacific too.

ciao!
Nick.
Fine, I concede your point. What I don't get is how to rationalize your two statements:

a) CN is not accurate enough for Nav among the Pacific atolls (i.e., so why bother with CN) ... and ...
b) Why bother with CN when an iPhone will do everything for you, albeit less accurately than a sextant.

That's what I mean by "you can't have it both ways."
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