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Old 10-11-2013, 10:04   #136
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Diverging slightly from the current arguments...

Has anyone factual evidence of a typical Casio-type watch being rendered inoperable by a lightning strike on a yacht? How about one stored in an improvised Faraday cage? And exactly why is a pressure cooker, made from fairly conductive Aluminium, not a functional Faraday cage? (I agree that microwave ovens and stove ovens are not adequate protection).

Not being argumentative here... serious questions!

Jim
Just a thought, would it be helpful to store the spare GPS inside one of those ESD plastic bags that they use to ship computer components? Place that inside your pressure cooker maybe...
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:17   #137
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

There is really no right or wrong with one's preference for either paper charts or electronic navigation but the skill sets needed to keep an accurate DR track and to plot fixes and EP's on a paper chart are not the equivalent of punching buttons on a screen. I am continually amazed how many "cruisers" who have made serious passages did not know navigation and relied solely on the information provided on their chartplotter. And, who trusted that information explicitly without being able to verify it by any other means. Does the fact that electronic navigation simplifies the process mean that it is superior? Do we trust the screen when our eyes tell us something different? And, in a worst case scenario (catastrophic electronic failure), will you be at the mercy of wind and waves without any idea how to complete your passage? We live in a world that is experiencing an incredible technological evolution but the new technology does not render the old obsolete--no more than a roller furling headsail has changed the dynamics/physics of sail handling and trim--it just makes it easier. Finally, in regards to the practicality of paper charts on a small vessel under 40 feet without a properly sized navigation station (so necessary and important to some sailors), countless chart publishers produce chartbooks in smaller sizes that are accurate and easily manageable in the tightest quarters. And, when full size charts are needed, they are easily folded with access to both latitude and longitude on two sides and plotted with either parallel rulers or a rolling parallel plotter with a compass rose. I am not anti-technology nor am I technologically incompetent. However, I would compare my preference for paper charts similar to my choice of a musical instrument, in my case, the guitar. When guitars became electrified in the early 50's, a revolution ensued. Their popularity was that they were louder. They didn't play better or have better tone . . . they were louder. They appealed to rockers, country western musicians and the like. But, they didn't replace the quality, handmade instrument played by serious musicians and they couldn't duplicate the natural organic sound. It's your choice, but I for one hope that paper never dies for the cruising sailor. Oh, and by the way, how do you like this rocker? Good luck, good sailing, good navigation, and good music. Segovia Plays Sonatina (Torroba) - YouTube
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:32   #138
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

Good post. You echo many of my sentiments. Perhaps it's because we grew up in the old school, long before electronic navigation instruments (other than RDF) were available.

I'm not techno-phobic, either. Matter of fact, I have always been a "first adopter" and was seen as such and often kidded about having to have the latest electronic toys. Folks thought I was crazy when in the early '70s I shelled out $850 for an HP65 programmable calculator, then went on to write and re-write several of HP's NAVPAC programs.

I have five GPS units aboard my boat...three fixed and two handhelds. I have two RDF units as well. Also have two sextants and the necessary tables.

BUT, I also carry paper charts and wouldn't leave port without them. Having been an electronics guy...and still am....I cringe at those who place 100% faith in their electronics and don't think about non-electronic backups. Or have practiced navigation skills by other means. For them, IMHO, it's just a matter of time...not if, but when.

Like the Segovia selection. But, my Martin D28 Dreadnought sounds better! Wish I could play it like Andres :-)

Bill
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:47   #139
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

I love Segovia, and this is a beautiful piece. I also love Johnny A, check out his "Jimijam" @ rockoplast 2011. If we were going to be total Luddites we would live in a cave without fire. In the case of saiing go the way of ancient navigators and use only your senses to determine your route, which does have some appeal to me.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:02   #140
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

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Good post. You echo many of my sentiments. Perhaps it's because we grew up in the old school, long before electronic navigation instruments (other than RDF) were available.

Like the Segovia selection. But, my Martin D28 Dreadnought sounds better! Wish I could play it like Andres :-)

Bill
Now see that proves it! It depends on preferences. I like my 1929 O-21, Adirondack top J-45, Fender Tele, and even my Uke... each for their strengths in different situations. We could argue D28 and J-45 for hours and both be right and then some joker would walk in with a Santa Cruz.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:33   #141
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+1

Parallel rules are great on a big ship, but nearly useless on a yacht, in my humble experience, except in a dead calm. You can't transfer the lines before they're shaken off position.

Thought you guys called them "Portland Plotters", however. We do. Breton plotters! Never thought I'd hear a Brit give so much credit to the French

Essential instrument. I've worn out half a dozen of them, I think.
Well as a Francophile ....

" The Breton Plotter was invented by Captain Yvonnick Gueret, a Breton seaman who developed the plotter during his experiences teaching navigation. He was a commander in merchant vessels, served on small fishing boats, delivered private yachts and taught navigation. He later extended the use of the plotter to air navigation for small aircraft.
"

I'm not sure where the term Portland came from

Dave
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:33   #142
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

A little teaser for people to try.

Using either OpenCPN or 'Burgle Brand' Cmap plot a route from Antofagasta to Easter Island.

Then try and figure out at what scale your electronic chart system will display Isla Sala y Gomez.

I would suggest a fair to middling chance you will hit it before you know its there if you don't at the very least have a chart of the S Pacific on the chart table.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:36   #143
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A little teaser for people to try.

Using either OpenCPN or 'Burgle Brand' Cmap plot a route from Antofagasta to Easter Island.

Then try and figure out at what scale your electronic chart system will display Isla Sala y Gomez.

I would suggest a fair to middling chance you will hit it before you know its there if you don't at the very least have a chart of the S Pacific on the chart table.
Of course you could use Garmin route features to detect obstructions automatically . If you were using Garmin of course !

Dave
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:26   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Well as a Francophile ....

" The Breton Plotter was invented by Captain Yvonnick Gueret, a Breton seaman who developed the plotter during his experiences teaching navigation. He was a commander in merchant vessels, served on small fishing boats, delivered private yachts and taught navigation. He later extended the use of the plotter to air navigation for small aircraft.
"

I'm not sure where the term Portland came from

Dave
"well as a Francophile" . . .

That totally cracks me up. Scratch a Brit, find a Francophile, although he will stubbornly insist all the while how much he hates the Frogs for 87 different reasons.

The problem is that everyone is a Francophile, and the Frogs understand and exploit that . . .
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:32   #145
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

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A little teaser for people to try.

Using either OpenCPN or 'Burgle Brand' Cmap plot a route from Antofagasta to Easter Island.

Then try and figure out at what scale your electronic chart system will display Isla Sala y Gomez.

I would suggest a fair to middling chance you will hit it before you know its there if you don't at the very least have a chart of the S Pacific on the chart table.
Getting pretty desperate to try and find a potential situation where paper might be better.

As mentioned by others, there are automated checks the programs can do. Also if you do make the mistake of plotting a course thru the island, you have probably around 2 weeks to notice and make a minor course adjustment to avoid the island. If you are even remotely paying attention, it should come up long before you run aground.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:14   #146
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

the end..... apart US NOAA that stopped PRINTING charts I do not know any other country in the world that ended updating, publishing and selling paper charts .
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Old 12-11-2013, 13:04   #147
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

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A parallel rules is very difficult to use when you can't get the compass rose on the same area as the plot destination. On a small boat say with full size admiralty charts its very difficult to use. Admiralty charts were designed to be laid out flat and fully open. Even half folded they loose functionality.


Dave
have you ever heard of Leisure Chart Folios which are A2 sized charts


and regarding parallel rulers....


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Old 12-11-2013, 13:49   #148
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Re: The End of Paper Nautical Charts

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Getting pretty desperate to try and find a potential situation where paper might be better.

As mentioned by others, there are automated checks the programs can do. Also if you do make the mistake of plotting a course thru the island, you have probably around 2 weeks to notice and make a minor course adjustment to avoid the island. If you are even remotely paying attention, it should come up long before you run aground.
No desperation at all.... that example is on my doorstep.

Automated checks the programs can do? So you are going to run a chart plotter 24 hours a day in mid ocean just in case your lack of understanding of over/underscale issues runs you into a bit of terra?
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Old 12-11-2013, 15:38   #149
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have you ever heard of Leisure Chart Folios which are A2 sized charts

and regarding parallel rulers....
Discontinued

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Old 12-11-2013, 15:42   #150
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No desperation at all.... that example is on my doorstep.

Automated checks the programs can do? So you are going to run a chart plotter 24 hours a day in mid ocean just in case your lack of understanding of over/underscale issues runs you into a bit of terra?
Actually. Like most reasonable people I zoom. In and check for obstructions


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