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Old 20-06-2011, 19:05   #16
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

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As I am sure you must know,AIS targets are also distributed over internet received from shore stations with a LIMITED range. SPOT vastly extends the range from which targets are distributed to the internet and viewers within internet coverage.

Sure,they are two different systems at the outset but they are both able to also transmit target positions over internet from different intermidiaries.
You are completely mis-characterising AIS. AIS is not a vessel tracking system, its a vessel information/collision warning system. AIS information is transmitted directly from a ship to another ship, it does not need the Internet. SPOT is useless without the internet. AIS to the Internet is purely a volunteer service, thats mosely useless, most of the time. ( And has nothing to do with official AIS).

If I was choosing AIS is a much better use of the money then SPOT.

Dave
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Old 20-06-2011, 19:55   #17
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
You are completely mis-characterising AIS. AIS is not a vessel tracking system, its a vessel information/collision warning system. AIS information is transmitted directly from a ship to another ship, it does not need the Internet. SPOT is useless without the internet. AIS to the Internet is purely a volunteer service, thats mosely useless, most of the time. ( And has nothing to do with official AIS).

If I was choosing AIS is a much better use of the money then SPOT.

Dave
You are correct.

But, I got two points:

1. You don't choose between AIS or Spot. They are for totally different purposes. Choose AIS for collision avoidance. Choose Spot so friends and family can follow your trip.

2. Tore uses them both for the same purpose. He uses them for armchair sailing. So, in his eyes, they are for the same thing.

-dan
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Old 20-06-2011, 20:06   #18
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

After a lifetime at sea as a commercial navigator I do know what AIS is and does. That is not the point I am making here.

AIS target tracking services are also an important service to ships,ports and shipping agents etc. There are thousands of AIS receiving land stations around the world relaying AIS target data to viewing points,also via the internet.

Perhaps this will update your views:
AIS Ship Tracking, Vessel Tracking & Maritime Business Inteligence | PortVision

Although ships have their own AIS transponders onboard,their range is limited.
Most commercial vessels have access to the internet via satellite and can view traffic in ports far outside the range of their own AIS transponder. BUT,the coverage is limited to the range and overlapping of the receiving land stations.

Comes the SPOT GPS satellite units,which cheaply relays their vessels position to the internet via LEO Satellites,far outpacing the limited range of the receiving AIS land stations.

I think I have made my point and it is up to the users as to whether they think the Globalstar-SPOT is worth the money.

Tore
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Old 20-06-2011, 20:18   #19
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

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Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
goboatingnow..


AIS target tracking services are also an important service to ships,ports and shipping agents etc. There are thousands of AIS receiving land stations around the world relaying AIS target data to viewing points,also via the internet.
No, they are not, see the IMO pronouncements on this

"
The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries.


"


Had the IMO the power they would ban land recording of AIS


Quote:
Although ships have their own AIS transponders onboard,their range is limited.
Most commercial vessels have access to the internet via satellite and can view traffic in ports far outside the range of their own AIS transponder. BUT,the coverage is limited to the range and overlapping of the receiving land stations.
No mariner I know , relies on Internet AIS, the data is unreliable, unverifiable and time constrained. sites such as Marinetraffic are experiments in crowd sourcing thats all.

Quote:
Comes the SPOT GPS satellite units,which cheaply relays their vessels position to the internet via LEO Satellites,far outpacing the limited range of the receiving AIS land stations.
Yes, but AIS is not SPOT , AIS it is not a tracking system. SPOT relies on a private satelitte system. AIS uses VHF and is designed to alert ships in the vicinity.

Quote:
I think I have made my point and it is up to the users as to whether they think the Globalstar-SPOT is worth the money.
I wasnt arguing with you about SPOT, I am disagreeing with your mis-comparision of AIS and SPOT as if they are competing technologies, its like comparing apples and oranges. Globalstar could change SPOTs pricing tomorrow, AIS is free after the equipment purchase and receivers can be got for 199 dollars. AIS is NOT a solution for yacht tracking or worldwide messaging, it was never designed for it.
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Old 20-06-2011, 20:38   #20
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

Someday someone somewhere will realize the a few simple polar orbiting satellites could receive the AIS signals and pass the data in near real time to some government agency. This could someday be part of a global maritime traffic management system. I'm sure that no such agency has the ability to do it today.

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Old 20-06-2011, 20:40   #21
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

goboatingnow..

IMO's arguments are not with official,commercial AIS tracking services used by the coastguards and pilots of most countries but with hobby AIS tracking which can be unreliable and not in 'real-time'. BUT,as you say,AIS is a free transmission,open to all, also the hobbyist. Many now retired seafarers have great enjoyment following their old shipmates and ships on their voyages across the oceans thanks to AIS being transmitted over the internet.

As any prudent navigator knows,it is the summa summarium of many sources of navigation information which paints the final picture,and advance knowledge of distant vessel movements,by whatever means is still valid.

I consider the subject exhausted and we shall just have to agree to differ.

Tore
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Old 20-06-2011, 20:46   #22
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

Viking Sailor..

Such services are already in preparation today called LRIT and they will relay their data to government establishments and others as a closed system at a high cost to the user.
I know both Canada and Norway have such systems in hand.

Details here: Absolute Maritime Tracking Services - FREE Ship Tracking

Norwegian coastguard:http://www.kystverket.no/?did=9819152

I'm all for an 'open source' use of systems funded by the tax payer and it should also be in the spirit of this OpenCPN forum,
Tore
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Old 21-06-2011, 05:12   #23
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
Someday someone somewhere will realize the a few simple polar orbiting satellites could receive the AIS signals and pass the data in near real time.
In less than 6 months

However, a reading range of more than 3000mi (the view of an orbiting satellite) will not work for your "near real time" more like every 6 hours or so.
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:03   #24
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

AIS may become a tracking service ( Google C-SIGMA), but the expectation is this will not be a user service, more aimed at global maritime awareness, thats is information for security services and Governments. LRIT being one of the first such tests to establish technical issues

In most countries the reception on land of AIS signals is technicaly illegal, but hard to detect and impossible to enforce. However commercial organisation could not use such systems, without extensive changes to various National laws.

AIS tracking has been integrated in some port operations, but these are local and specific.

Its important to realise that the current Internet accessible sites such as MarineTraffic, for example hosted by a Greek University and merely crowd source experiments and carry no quality of service undertakings. They are "hobbyists".

Dave
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Old 21-06-2011, 11:43   #25
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

In one of my previous postings I meant to demonstrate the SPOT ADVENTURE feature through a test/demo adventure I made out of a car trip between Ubatuba and Sao Paulo but forgot to include the link.

Here is the link: Spot Adventures | SpotAdventures

I am not quite sure how long the data is retained in the Globalstar buffers when using SPOT ADVENTURE and I think it is up to each individual user to poll/initiate their data.
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Old 21-06-2011, 11:55   #26
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

goboatingnow # 24

Ship tracking by AIS land stations have been around for many years by most coast guards and an increasing number of serious companies providing shipping 'intelligence'.

Lloyds::Seasearcher - Lloyd's List Intelligence: tankers, gas, dry bulk, insurance, law & regulation, finance & credit

Fairplay::http://www.ihs.com/products/maritime...ion/index.aspx
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:27   #27
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

SPOT MESSENGER can of course also be used in OpenCPN for your road trips or hiking in the woods using calibrated Google Map and Google terrain layouts as shown in the attachments created by an imported .GPX file.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Google Map-Spot.jpg
Views:	141
Size:	218.3 KB
ID:	29190   Click image for larger version

Name:	Google Terr-Spot.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	188.4 KB
ID:	29191  

Attached Files
File Type: gpx spot_messages-ALL.gpx (38.5 KB, 61 views)
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Old 03-07-2011, 19:44   #28
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

Without going into the rights and Wrongs or the argument Spot v. AIS, I just have a couple of comments.

I'm on a delivery between Seychelles and Australia and have been making daily Spot reports to the Owner and friends and family - and - Facebook, would you believe!

Anyway - I reckon that its a complete "act of faith" when I press the spot buttons: yes - it tells me the message is going, or has gone, but I never really know!

For example, Spot coverage in the Indian Ocean is "spotty" and of approx 10 reports, only about 6 actually got through. It seems to be getting better the further East I go. This is probably due to satellite footprints in this area and I can live with that but it would still be really nice to know from the sharp end, if the message got through or not! Tony
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Old 03-07-2011, 20:24   #29
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

Tony..
As you will see from the attched Globalstar-SPOT coverage map,the Indian Ocean is hardly covered at all and you were very lucky indeed to get through 6 out of 10 messages in that location. All this from 3 small AAA batteries is a miracle indeed.

While a message is underway,both the GPS and the email lights should be green.
If not successful the first time it will retransmit until successful provided the GPS light is green. When the message has been successfully transmitted,the green email light will extinguish. I agree it is inconvenient to sit watching the lights for confirmation but other,advanced methods of confirmation,for example being able to receive a receipt via bluetooth to a smartphone is possible from the SPOT CONNECT unit which will also show the transmitted position on the smartphones Google Map.

In my opinion,the SPOT units are little miracles in their own right,within the budget of most people.

Tore
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Name:	Screenshot_06 Jul. 03 23.07.jpg
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ID:	29217  
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Old 03-07-2011, 21:15   #30
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Re: TESTING THE GLOBALSTAR SPOT MESSENGER

Without going into the rights and Wrongs or the argument Spot v. AIS, I just have a couple of comments.

I'm on a delivery between Seychelles and Australia and have been making daily Spot reports to the Owner and friends and family - and - Facebook, would you believe!

Anyway - I reckon that its a complete "act of faith" when I press the spot buttons: yes - it tells me the message is going, or has gone, but I never really know!

For example, Spot coverage in the Indian Ocean is "spotty" and of approx 10 reports, only about 6 actually got through. It seems to be getting better the further East I go. This is probably due to satellite footprints in this area and I can live with that but it would still be really nice to know from the sharp end, if the message got through or not! Tony
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