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Old 28-01-2007, 00:38   #31
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I don’t think the solar storms are choosing targets, all satellites would be affected
No greg, that is not correct. The main problem accurs close to the earths upper atmosphere. The solar radiation alone does not cause the damage. It is when the three come together. The upper atmosphere, magentic field and solar particles in the storm. Think if it this way. The magnetic field acts like the windshield on your car. Just above the surface of the windshield, the air is pressed into a high concentration or higher pressure as the air is deflected. The same happens with the magnetic field. The solar wind is deflected but also in creased in "pressure" or concentration. This causes a "drag" on close orbit satillites which can cause them to lose altitude. All satillites are protected from radiation. The only area part being of concern is the solar pannels. These are suseptable, but most have the ability of being rotated, or folded up compleatly and thus protected. GPS birds are medium high altitude units. They are far above the affects of the magnetic field, or at least the major damage causing area. Extreme altitude Satillites are out there on the own and tend to be earth/Sun abservation satillites.
As for that news papaer article, that is a total load of crock. Even the comment about Mars is rubbish. The collapse of the magentic filed was not the cause of the planet losing it's atmosphere. Infact, no one has yet confirmed if the planet does or does not have a magentic field.
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Old 28-01-2007, 03:45   #32
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Originally Posted by seafox
but in the other post you are thinking of selling it???
I am (or was?). Not sure yet. Doesn't mean the next one would be a Hunter 29.


Never Monday- Great one! ha ha ha

Here is a good link discussing what Wheels is correctly talking about above. It's from one of the missions I worked on, CLUSTER. Wheels is correct in that most (if not all) satellites are protected from the plasma associated with solar wind. Satellites like the ones in the CLUSTER mission are actually measuring that plasma's intensity and direction, so they certainly can withstand it.

Also, here is a graphic (public domain) we used often in the mission literature that helps you to visualze the Sun/Earth interaction. You can see what the solar wind does to the Earth's magneosphere. Basically, the Earth is like a giant magnet. The plasma in the solar wind is deflected along the magnetic field lines as Wheels describes. Some of it rides those magnetic field lines to their points of origin at the poles creating the aurora, or what we call the Northern Lights up here.

ESA Science & Technology: Solar Wind

Here are the images. The hand drawn image is good to look at first. In that image, the solar wind comes from the Sun toward the Earth in the direction indicated. The bow shock area is where the compression Wheels describes in his windshield analogy takes place. The whole thing isn't unlike the bow of a boat going through water. In the more fancy image, you see the same thing, only, well... it's more fancy!
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Old 28-01-2007, 03:58   #33
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For some excellent information on this subject, go to the NWS/NOAA Space Environment Center*:
SEC Education and Outreach

* NOAA/ National Weather Service, National Centers for Environmental Prediction,
Space Environment Center (SEC)


Including:

A Primer on Space Weather ~ SEC
* NOAA/ National Weather Service, National Centers for Environmental Prediction, Space Environment Center (SEC)
Goto: Primer on the Solar Space Environment

SEC Frequently Asked Questions about Space Weather:
Goto: SEC FAQ



Although Mars does not presently have a global magnetic field, it probably had one (similar to that of Earth) early in its life.
Mars does have very several strong crustal magnetic fields (permanently magnetized localized patches of rock on itís surface, each aligned in a different direction), more than 30 times stronger than those of Earth.
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Old 28-01-2007, 06:57   #34
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Wheels,

Thanks for the correction on the satellites issue, very clear. As for the article, when I did a web search on the subject, that was the first one to come up. There were many, perhaps better ones, to choose from, like the Scientific American. So the Mars theory may be off just a little bit, (smiling) but the rest of it has some merit, don't you think? I mean "they" used to think Plate Tectonics was just bunk until the wherewithal was found to prove it, same with rogue waves come to think of it. As to the timing and severity of it's effect, I guess it's open to discussion.

Te me personally, I think it's one of those (many) things that are so far beyond my control that it's really not worth worrying about until the time comes. Hopefully far, far in the future.
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Old 29-01-2007, 21:46   #35
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"Did anyone see China's test of the satellite destroyer last week? "
That was a political statement, nothing more. I think Robert Heinlein or Arthur Clarke pointed out in the 1950's that any satellite could be "killed" by simply releasing a cloud of buckshot in a retrograde orbit. The difference in velocity would cause such massive damage that you wouldn't have to "fire" the buckshot, just fling it opposite the target's direction of rotation. One launch, one ten dollar bag of buckshot, and you can kill anything else in orbit including the ISS.

Understandably the US and everyone else was reluctant to raise the subject over all these years, no one wants to admit they have satellite killers in orbit--but you can assume we've had them up there since we caught up with Sputnik.

The Chinese just wanted to show the world they also own Big Boy Pants. A childish way to do it, but that's sometimes the way the game is played.

Now, just send a letter to the Navy ask them for specifics about how the GPS satellites are hardened and against what threats. You'll find a whole new crew of dockhands in blue serge suits cleaning your mooring lines, inspecting you bilge, running all sorts of tasks in your immediate area.<G>
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Old 29-01-2007, 23:12   #36
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Hopefully far, far in the future
Did you know that the Sun is burning matter at a rate of 1 billion tons per second. That's an amasing amount. And yet there is enough there to last the Sun another 5 billion years, give or take a year or two ;-)
Another astonishing fact, the energy produced in the centre of the Sun takes ruffly a million years to get to the surface. It then only takes 8.5 mins to reach earth.
1 cubic inch of "Sun" produces enough energy to kill a human from 100 miles away.
The amount of energy the Sun produces every second, is enough to power the entire USA for 9 million years.
Cool eh!.
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Old 30-01-2007, 02:42   #37
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
Did you know that the Sun is burning matter at a rate of 1 billion tons per second. That's an amasing amount. And yet there is enough there to last the Sun another 5 billion years, give or take a year or two ;-)
Another astonishing fact, the energy produced in the centre of the Sun takes ruffly a million years to get to the surface. It then only takes 8.5 mins to reach earth.
1 cubic inch of "Sun" produces enough energy to kill a human from 100 miles away.
The amount of energy the Sun produces every second, is enough to power the entire USA for 9 million years.
Cool eh!.
Thats nothing Wheels.Look what man has done to his own enviroment in just the past 200yrs.The horse has bolted and, she's miles ahead,What is happening outside the planet can only intensify what has happened here on earth,everybody is sidelining the real importance of "Whats happening out there".Sunspots and solar radiation and EVERYTHING else out there associated with it,will have a more detrimental effect than someones navsat system.Mainly because the way humans over all have managed their enviroment and so forth.So if there is any sailors out there with more electronic skills as apposed to manual ones in regards to navigation.Think now before," It's to late"(The Eagles,"Desparado",Hey I heard Jimmy Buffet is an AUSSIE, OT,Because if sailing don't kill ya,the wheather will..Mudnut.
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:57   #38
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This just in . . .

. . . from the Associated Press, and filed about an hour and a half ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/tech...=1&oref=slogin

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Old 04-04-2007, 20:14   #39
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Originally Posted by taojones
. . . from the Associated Press, and filed about an hour and a half ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/tech...=1&oref=slogin

TaoJones
Ok, so...I'll stay in port? learn how to navigate the "old" way...what?
Nature is going to happen, period theres nothing man can do about it accept deal with the aftermeth.
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Old 04-04-2007, 20:38   #40
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By all means, never monday, sail away . . .

. . . because chances are you're pretty safe sailing on a lake.

And learning how to navigate the "old" way is a good idea for every sailor. It isn't hard to learn, and instills a genuine feeling of accomplishment. Plus, it just looks so "salty."

And, true enough, nature will take it's course, but I hope I don't ever have to sail near anyone who is at the helm "aftermeth."

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