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dennymusic · 18-03-2018, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Raymarine just released this a few days ago:

Quantum 2 - CHIRP Radar with Doppler Collision Avoidance | Raymarine - A Brand by FLIR

It also color codes targets.

Raymarines page on it reads, "Doppler does an excellent job of bringing attention to moving targets, but it does downplay stationary targets, that can be equally as dangerous."

So, sailjumanji's comment before your said with his B&G 4G Radar he, "Have picked up tops of 6 inch diameter pilings that were channel markers without signage"

Hummmm,,,,,

Pizzazz · 20-03-2018, 09:04

My approach is to start with the most important gear, the autopilot, then work your system from there, Garmin, Simrad, Raymarine - I believe they are all similar today. Furuno used to be better in the past but I do not think it is much better today. Furuno sensors and autopilot are also way more expensive than Raymarine for example.

The issue with Raymarine is that they change the architecture often. For example, the new Quantum2 radar will only work with the Axiom, the eS and the gS. The popular a Series is legacy now. This is painful for upgraders.

Many of the new features introduced with the new breed of Android based plotters (Raymarine Axiom, navico, etc.) are great but if you compare them to the functionality of an Android tablet or phone (e.g. for GRIB display, weather, routing) they are a joke. Most people end up getting weather, routing, audio control features on their phone. It is much faster, smoother, better UI. Therefore I think the plotter should excel in the actual steering the boat function which means (to me) great autopilot control, integration with wind and heading sensors, radar. I hope that helps. If I were in your situation, I will stay with the Garmin. If starting from scratch, I will do newest Raymarine Axiom+Quantum2. You can always sell the old equipment on eBay, there is a thriving market on the site.

dennymusic · 20-03-2018, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Same here. Installed B&G Zeus2 and 4G radar in 2015, and cannot envision what unit could possibly be better. Have used it in darkness, fog, and tracking thunderstorms. Chart overlay is great. Have picked up tops of 6 inch diameter pilings that were channel markers without signage, and compared to GPS map locations. Excellent kit from B&G/Simrad. Installing same 4G radar on new boat, but going with Zeus3 just to keep current.

"sailjuman",,,,, that's a pretty good testimonial for the 4G. You really got my attention with that. Do you have the 7 inch or 9 inch version?

I have my eye on Zeus3 (7 inch) and 4G. It'll be the first MFD and Radar I've ever owned due to being a new sailor. I had a 37 Gulfstar sloop years ago but only sailed it in Galveston Bay occasionally.

B&G is made specifically for sailors so that's why I focused my attention to it. But my boat is a Vagabond 47, full keel. I'm not sure if the StructureScan HD and ForwardScan will even work on my boat. I need to call and chat with their tech guys.

I'm in luck. Practical Sailor just finished a review of the Zeus3 last month and had very good things to say about it:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...#story-paywall

sailjumanji · 20-03-2018, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennymusic

"sailjuman",,,,, that's a pretty good testimonial for the 4G. You really got my attention with that. Do you have the 7 inch or 9 inch version?

I have my eye on Zeus3 (7 inch) and 4G. It'll be the first MFD and Radar I've ever owned due to being a new sailor. I had a 37 Gulfstar sloop years ago but only sailed it in Galveston Bay occasionally.

B&G is made specifically for sailors so that's why I focused my attention to it. But my boat is a Vagabond 47, full keel. I'm not sure if the StructureScan HD and ForwardScan will even work on my boat. I need to call and chat with their tech guys.

I'm in luck. Practical Sailor just finished a review of the Zeus3 last month and had very good things to say about it:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...#story-paywall

9 inch Zeus 2.

contrail · 20-03-2018, 18:31

My sailing instruments and autopilot are Raymarine, who have always been good with these.

My chartplotter is Garmin, who, in my experience, have been the best with this.

My Radar is a B&G 4G which has been superb. It was damaged in Irma, and I will be replacing it with the same. I have had 20 some years of radar experience with Raymarine (was Ratheon and Apelco back then), and the original 1991 radar is the only one I would buy again. It's a long and painful story, I can assure you, and left me with little faith in the company. The frequency with which they make their stuff obsolete is another turnoff. Furuno makes great stuff and supports it for a long, long time.

Check all the little features and see which ones make a difference. Garmin was also in contention as a radar, but there were several features on the B&G that won out. One of them is that when the B&G is in twin screen mode (I use one set for a longer distance, for weather, and one very close in for collision avoidance - and yes, you can see those poles in the water) you can set two alarms on each screen. ON the Garmin, at least a couple of years ago, when you activated the alarm feature, it automatically shifted to one screen. I happen to value the alarms greatly, and singlehand quite a bit so I didn't want to lose the ability to have two screens going. It was a small thing, and Garmin's tech support indicated little interest in adding it so B&G won out. I am very pleased. And, by the way, don't talk to me about Raymarine alarms........

I have never seen the need for integrating everything. My stuff does talk to each other, across the brands, but I prefer the redundancy of separate systems. To me, that's a "we do it because we can" feature, not a "we do it because it's better". Others may differ. If I want to closely match the radar and the plotter, I set them for equivalent ranges, put the GPS on "track up", and watch them side by side. I don't often do this, but it works fine.

dennymusic · 20-03-2018, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

9 inch Zeus 2.

The Practical Sailor review I mentioned used the 7 inch. I'm planning on going with a 7 inch but not 100% sure.

Your new one will also be 9 inch? Any thoughts on going with a 7 inch?

sailjumanji · 22-03-2018, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennymusic

The Practical Sailor review I mentioned used the 7 inch. I'm planning on going with a 7 inch but not 100% sure.

Your new one will also be 9 inch? Any thoughts on going with a 7 inch?

Just comes down to how big the map needs to be for you to see it. Larger screens use more power. I think the 12 inch has another video/Ethernet port. If you're not needing forward scan, you can save money and go with Zeus 2, and still even do larger screen. I'm not doing forward scan as I question how effective is in shallow water. I'm sure it works, but if you are sailing along in 10 ft water, how much forward can it see?

**Dockhead** · 22-03-2018, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennymusic

"sailjuman",,,,, that's a pretty good testimonial for the 4G. You really got my attention with that. Do you have the 7 inch or 9 inch version?

I have my eye on Zeus3 (7 inch) and 4G. It'll be the first MFD and Radar I've ever owned due to being a new sailor. I had a 37 Gulfstar sloop years ago but only sailed it in Galveston Bay occasionally.

B&G is made specifically for sailors so that's why I focused my attention to it. But my boat is a Vagabond 47, full keel. I'm not sure if the StructureScan HD and ForwardScan will even work on my boat. I need to call and chat with their tech guys.

I'm in luck. Practical Sailor just finished a review of the Zeus3 last month and had very good things to say about it:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...#story-paywall

For a slightly different perspective:

I have been using the 4G radar for five years and many thousands of miles.

It has good and bad points, and I wouldn't rush off to buy one without doing a thorough comparison.

The Good:

* Actually, the Superb -- it has unbelievably good target discrimination which makes the guard zone alarms extremely useful. With a little tuning, almost zero false alarms in reasonable sea states, and zero missed targets. I can't say how much I love this. It's like having an extra watchkeeper on board.

* Contrary to some reports, the range is absolutely fine. Entirely adequate for my purposes. Ships show up well at 20 miles.

* Close range target discrimination. As reported, the 4G works very well at close ranges, with no main bang, and can show pilings, channel markers, etc. provided the sea state is reasonable.

The Bad:

* Bearing discrimination is poor, worse than my ancient steam-powered Raytheon Pathfinder was. I guess you just can't overcome the small antenna -- probably question of pure geometry which no amount of signal processing can overcome.

The Ugly:

* MARPA is utterly useless - utter rubbish. I'm sure this is a result of the poor bearing discrimination.

The Fatal:

* Navico stop supporting "legacy" gear after only 4 or 5 years. Not that the support was every anything to write home about.

* It's not reliable. It crashes sometimes with "No Spoke Data" and "No Radar Detected", a well known and common fault. Navico are of no help.

Because of the last thing, after a dark night when I couldn't get the radar to come up again, I wouldn't buy another one of these. And in general, Navico equipment, although there are many things I like about it, is just not quite reliable enough in my experience. Marine MFDs should just never crash. NEVER. Like the wings falling off of aeroplanes. My Zeus plotters do. Not very often, but it should be NEVER. And there are other problems.

I think the competition has not been sleeping and I would look at Raymarine and Furuno. I think my next boat will probably have Furuno electronics.

dennymusic · 22-03-2018, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

For a slightly different perspective:

I have been using the 4G radar for five years and many thousands of miles.

* Bearing discrimination is poor, worse than my ancient steam-powered Raytheon Pathfinder was.

* MARPA is utterly useless - utter rubbish. I'm sure this is a result of the poor bearing discrimination.

The Fatal:

* Navico stop supporting "legacy" gear after only 4 or 5 years. Not that the support was every anything to write home about.

* It's not reliable. It crashes sometimes with "No Spoke Data" and "No Radar Detected", a well known and common fault. Navico are of no help.

Because of the last thing, after a dark night when I couldn't get the radar to come up again, I wouldn't buy another one of these. And in general, Navico equipment, although there are many things I like about it, is just not quite reliable enough in my experience. Marine MFDs should just never crash. NEVER. Like the wings falling off of aeroplanes. My Zeus plotters do. Not very often, but it should be NEVER. And there are other problems.

I think the competition has not been sleeping and I would look at Raymarine and Furuno. I think my next boat will probably have Furuno electronics.

I hate to hear these points you made. Sorta took the wind out of my sails of the decision I made to go all B&G. Now I'm stumped.

**Dockhead** · 22-03-2018, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennymusic

I hate to hear these points you made. Sorta took the wind out of my sails of the decision I made to go all B&G. Now I'm stumped.

Well, my experience is just one data point. Do a lot of research before making this decision.

For even worse experience than mine, see the threads started on this forum by TwistedTree.

It also depends on your priorities. If you want serious professional type equipment which you are willing to spend time learning, have a good look at Furuno. This may be a good choice for the hard-core; maybe less so for the weekend sailor type.

People also have problems with Raymarine, so check it out carefully. But my experience (equipment several generations ago) was good, and the technology has been greatly advanced. I have heard generally good things about it lately.

Garmin I don't like only because they force you to use their cartography.

In any case, a lot of research is in order, because marine electronics have greatly changed in the last 5 years. Before that, they were mostly heavy duty even military-type stuff which was similar to what is used on commercial vessels and designed to last for many years. With price to match. About 5 years ago, they started to be transformed to cheaper more consumer electronics type devices, not intended to last all that long. That's probably good -- it's suited to the pace of technology change, but not at the expense of reliability. Maybe the last generation of B&G stuff is better; mine is all G1. Research!

dennymusic · 22-03-2018, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It also depends on your priorities. If you want serious professional type equipment which you are willing to spend time learning, have a good look at Furuno. This may be a good choice for the hard-core; maybe less so for the weekend sailor type.

In any case, a lot of research is in order, because marine electronics have greatly changed in the last 5 years.

Maybe the last generation of B&G stuff is better; mine is all G1. Research!

I will do a bit more researce.

Your 4G is 5 years old so that may be the problem?

I really want a good MFD right now. B&G is sailor specific. I like the things it can do for a sailboat underway.

Radar I can wait on. I have an older Raymarine right now, "Raymarine SL72 Pathfinder Plus". I haven't used it yet because my boat has a seized engine and damaged electrical 110/12 V wiring. I'm repairing all of that now. Previous owner is an experienced sailor and told me the radar that I have now works fine. It is not damaged. The 4G is getting pretty good reviews and there is a Youtube vid B&G has that sold me on the 4G. Of course they are going to say all positive things but the explanation of their technology seems cutting edge. Look at this short vid;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niWTM2MullU

**Dockhead** · 22-03-2018, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennymusic

I will do a bit more researce.

Your 4G is 5 years old so that may be the problem?

I really want a good MFD right now. B&G is sailor specific. I like the things it can do for a sailboat underway.

Radar I can wait on. I have an older Raymarine right now, "Raymarine SL72 Pathfinder Plus". I haven't used it yet because my boat has a seized engine and damaged electrical 110/12 V wiring. I'm repairing all of that now. Previous owner is an experienced sailor and told me the radar that I have now works fine. It is not damaged. The 4G is getting pretty good reviews and there is a Youtube vid B&G has that sold me on the 4G. Of course they are going to say all positive things but the explanation of their technology seems cutting edge. Look at this short vid;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niWTM2MullU

Oh, you have the ancient Pathfinder system like what I used to have. This is actually very good equipment which lasts forever. Marpa is almost useless on this radar, but better than the 4G, if you have the 24" dome. But you can't put modern chart chips in it, and it can't display AIS, so you are right to be upgrading it.

Concerning your choice of a new system -- you'll have to do the research and make up your own mind.

I had problems with my 4G radar from Day 1, so it's not age. It has not become more unreliable with age.

But it could be that they have made some changes which have eliminated the notorious "No Spoke Data" glitch -- you'll have to check. I'm not aware that they have made any significant changes to the 4G radar, which must be near the end of its product cycle. But I don't know for sure; you'll have to check.

dennymusic · 22-03-2018, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Oh, you have the ancient Pathfinder system like what I used to have. This is actually very good equipment which lasts forever. Marpa is almost useless on this radar, but better than the 4G, if you have the 24" dome. But you can't put modern chart chips in it, and it can't display AIS, so you are right to be upgrading it.
.

I don't know if it's 24 inch or not. Raymarine doesn't service it anymore. But I will keep it for now.

I will save this topic thread for future reference. This is a great forum.

Thanks for your input Dockhead.