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Old 07-07-2013, 15:12   #436
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

As an experienced sailor and friend of Matt Wootton (the only Brit on Nina) I wanted to thank everyone who's posted with their knowledge/experience of the Tasman Sea, Nina and David, and of 'survival'.

I've found the information very helpful and it has given me hope that they are limping along and that friends and family could still be reunited. It has also been helpful to be able to refer to information from this forum, along with my own experience of an Atlantic storm (hoving to, etc), when talking to some of Matt's friends. The non-sailors are being very negative which is natural when you have no knowledge of sailing, and I desperately want them to share in my hope as its too soon to assume the worst.

Finally, a message to "Worried Mum" - I guessed you were Matt's Mum and my thoughts are very much with you and your family. If you feel it will help, please contact me. My email is elise@greenoxford.com.
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:10   #437
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Thanks for the support. Hey England uses CCTV for good why can't the NSA show they can too!!

Cherie
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:21   #438
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I think the article could have balance in it. Perhaps we are controlled in this thread by the emotions of having family reading.
certainly when the Bounty went down we were able to much more critically assess its situation.

In the assessment of Bounty on this and another sailing forum (that I contribute to) most of the salient points we discussed, or discovered were later brought up in the official hearings by the Coast Guard.

Similar to the Bounty, we seem to have unreasonably high regard towards old wooden boats and prejudice against anything newly built.

Without being able to discuss it openly we fail in our ability to learn from this type of disaster.


Mark
Agreed! As the only creatures on planet earth with the ability to record our own history and learn from it, it's a shame we rarely do. As for the old boat vs new boat ill take a modern IP 485 or other full keel well built over anything wood built.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:21   #439
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

I dont know who does it, Or how to get the info,

But all ships are tracked in the Tasman Sea beside Australia,

I know this because they can track any ship that has dumped oil or emptied their Bilges on their way past OZ,

They go back thru the films, GPS, etc, to find the offending vessel, Up to a month after the vessel has left OZ waters,

They do find them and fine them, Possibly try AMSA in Australia,

Its winter here, so the weather is not pleasant, Even on land here, Its dangerous, With huge trees being ripped out of the ground,

When I sank on Broughton Island, Just north of Newcastle, I was told to get local info,

This is on a coast 1500 miles long,So for the last 18 months I have been watching that coast and the weather patterns there, As I will be going thru there again,

Its like a cyclone has been tethered there, It goes around in circles, Its the only place in OZ that does it,
4 winds all going into the centre of the circle,
How they predict weather there is beyond me,

Nina is Bang in the Middle of it, They are probably going around in circles, Due to the extreme iffy winds they are in the middle of,

Hang in there, They will front up some where, soon, With a hell of a story to tell,
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:31   #440
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I dont know who does it, Or how to get the info,

But all ships are tracked in the Tasman Sea beside Australia,

I know this because they can track any ship that has dumped oil or emptied their Bilges on their way past OZ,

They go back thru the films, GPS, etc, to find the offending vessel, Up to a month after the vessel has left OZ waters,

They do find them and fine them, Possibly try AMSA in Australia,

Its winter here, so the weather is not pleasant, Even on land here, Its dangerous, With huge trees being ripped out of the ground,

When I sank on Broughton Island, Just north of Newcastle, I was told to get local info,

This is on a coast 1500 miles long,So for the last 18 months I have been watching that coast and the weather patterns there, As I will be going thru there again,

Its like a cyclone has been tethered there, It goes around in circles, Its the only place in OZ that does it,
4 winds all going into the centre of the circle,
How they predict weather there is beyond me,

Nina is Bang in the Middle of it, They are probably going around in circles, Due to the extreme iffy winds they are in the middle of,

Hang in there, They will front up some where, soon, With a hell of a story to tell,
Tracking is almost certainly done via AIS which the skipper of Nina choose not to have.

I'm not very experienced at this forum stuff and I don't have thousands of posts to my name like some who's opinions are largely from a armchair. I do have quite a lot of sea time in small boats.

Of course there is a possibility if Nina still being afloat, but we should prepare for the worst.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:39   #441
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
I dont know who does it, Or how to get the info,

But all ships are tracked in the Tasman Sea beside Australia,

I know this because they can track any ship that has dumped oil or emptied their Bilges on their way past OZ,

They go back thru the films, GPS, etc, to find the offending vessel, Up to a month after the vessel has left OZ waters,

They do find them and fine them, Possibly try AMSA in Australia,
[snip]
To clarify, so we don't start anything...I believe what Mr B is referring to is MASTREP http://www.amsa.gov.au/forms-and-pub...ns/Mastrep.pdf which is the successor to AUSREP.

Reporting is only mandatory for a subset of commercial vessels and is optionally available to others. MASTREP now uses AIS where available.

I don't think this is relevant to Nina though others may have an alternate view. One assumes that given the liaison between the NZRCC and the Aus RCC any information would have been shared long ago if it did by slight chance exist.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:46   #442
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

At this stage there is no proof that Nina has sunk, so the only supported inference is that she is overdue so something untoward must have happened, but not necessarily sinking.
Maybe it would be worthwhile approaching the owners of the ships that routinely cross this patch of ocean, and offer a reward for any crew member who can spot anything that can be definitely linked to Nina. Nothing like a bit of financial incentive to get people off their bums!

Regards,

Richard.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:53   #443
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

Hi, Bazzer,

You wrote, "Tracking is almost certainly done via AIS which the skipper of Nina choose not to have.

I'm not very experienced at this forum stuff and I don't have thousands of posts to my name like some who's opinions are largely from a armchair. I do have quite a lot of sea time in small boats.

Of course there is a possibility if Nina still being afloat, but we should prepare for the worst."

AIS comes in two forms. Some skippers have just the receivers, others, the transponders. It is the latter which broadcast the vessel's position. Mostly sailors do not go to sea in order to inform everyone else where they may be. They go to enjoy the ocean or to get from A to B, but it's about grownups playing. Some have no AIS. We like ours, but you may not want one. People vary in their decisions.

I wonder whether you would have posted your last paragraph if you asked yourself how you'd feel if the positions were reversed. To me, I think everyone is quite well aware it might be over for the Nina, but also, at the same time we who have had timber vessels not show up on our radar, or had to use jury rigs and got in really a long time after we anticipated, and then not to the original destination, know that if they are limping around somewhere between, say 37 S and 25 S with a boat speed of ~1 knot, that it could take them quite a long time to reach Australia's sunny shore. Why should we post statements here to discourage those who are left behind, hoping? To me, it seems needlessly inconsiderate.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:56   #444
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Originally Posted by Pelorus32 View Post

To clarify, so we don't start anything...I believe what Mr B is referring to is MASTREP http://www.amsa.gov.au/forms-and-pub...ns/Mastrep.pdf which is the successor to AUSREP.

Reporting is only mandatory for a subset of commercial vessels and is optionally available to others. MASTREP now uses AIS where available.

I don't think this is relevant to Nina though others may have an alternate view. One assumes that given the liaison between the NZRCC and the Aus RCC any information would have been shared long ago if it did by slight chance exist.
From what I read it seems that AIS is the only tracking used. Big Brother can track me anytime!
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Old 07-07-2013, 18:05   #445
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Hi, Bazzer,

You wrote, "Tracking is almost certainly done via AIS which the skipper of Nina choose not to have.

I'm not very experienced at this forum stuff and I don't have thousands of posts to my name like some who's opinions are largely from a armchair. I do have quite a lot of sea time in small boats.

Of course there is a possibility if Nina still being afloat, but we should prepare for the worst."

AIS comes in two forms. Some skippers have just the receivers, others, the transponders. It is the latter which broadcast the vessel's position. Mostly sailors do not go to sea in order to inform everyone else where they may be. They go to enjoy the ocean or to get from A to B, but it's about grownups playing. Some have no AIS. We like ours, but you may not want one. People vary in their decisions.

I wonder whether you would have posted your last paragraph if you asked yourself how you'd feel if the positions were reversed. To me, I think everyone is quite well aware it might be over for the Nina, but also, at the same time we who have had timber vessels not show up on our radar, or had to use jury rigs and got in really a long time after we anticipated, and then not to the original destination, know that if they are limping around somewhere between, say 37 S and 25 S with a boat speed of ~1 knot, that it could take them quite a long time to reach Australia's sunny shore. Why should we post statements here to discourage those who are left behind, hoping? To me, it seems needlessly inconsiderate.
Ann T Cate, inconsiderate? Don't you think that what the skipper was setting off without it and putting his crew in extra danger?
AIS transponders are cheap and easy to install. Certainly less than $1000 here in the USA. I train all of my crew as to how to use it for their watches.

Of course I would love to see the skipper show up with his crew intact. But Nina now is long overdue with no reported sighting by the SAR and all others in the area, I'm sure the NZ coast guard have put out a message or two asking all to keep a lookout for here. Her in the USA that would happen for a overdue boat for many days. The fact that no sightings have been reported is a bad sign.
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Old 07-07-2013, 18:08   #446
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

I still hold out hope for the Nina and this is why:

My brother was coming back to this side of the Atlantic (somewhere in the Caribbean) from the Cape Verdes in 2008. As a result of a lot of broken gear the trip ended up taking him 42 days. He left a few days before the ARC and even the smallest boats were done with the rally after 20-ish days. My dad and I filed an overdue report with the USCG after 30 days and my family waited. On day 42 I received a call from the USCG regarding his activated EPIRB and 35 minutes later I received a call that he was picked up in his raft by a passing ship and they were heading to Nassau.

I have my fingers crossed and have been keeping the crew in my prayers.
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Old 07-07-2013, 18:12   #447
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

All I can say is Connie and I have been a long time overdue in these same waters !! 28 days as I remember! Theres just to many folks on here that have never been late I guess! They like to cry wolf ! I guess it makes them feel better about themselfs!! But I kinda think it's way to soon to be to afraid for these folks ! cus it sounds to me that they are mostly good sailors with a sound , if old vessel. The weather has been sloppy but sure no Hurrycane! To many things can effect communcations! give it at least a couple of more weeks till ya get to bent out of shape !! Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-07-2013, 18:20   #448
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

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Tracking is almost certainly done via AIS which the skipper of Nina choose not to have.(...)
Normally, offshore tracking is done by services using the Yellowbrick, Spot, deLorme.

AIS is a collision avoidance / environment awareness tool. Inshore tracking as done by some VTS is a secondary application and is limited to areas covered by these centers (often in ports, and where tss lanes exist).

Offshore AIS tracking can be done via the satellite (done by at least one company I know of). It is a commercial, paid service, and they may or may not keep any track of past pings from units that are not associated (paid for the service). They are not a governmental agenda and they may be limited in storing and processing of data that does not form part of their contractual business.

Please note that if Niņa lost her comms in one dramatic swipe (she did seem to have lost: Iridium, Spot, VHF(s)), then AIS could have been taken out by the same event - it is a VHF based system as you know.


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Old 07-07-2013, 18:32   #449
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

I have been following since day one, I think the most positive point is the text saying the sails were shredded and they were under bare poles, at least this means,if things got worse they would be ready for it,lifejackets, ditch bag etc.
So its not as if they were caught by surprise,say,hitting something at night and sinking quickly.
Keep up hope. Bruce.
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Old 07-07-2013, 19:08   #450
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Normally, offshore tracking is done by services using the Yellowbrick, Spot, deLorme.

AIS is a collision avoidance / environment awareness tool. Inshore tracking as done by some VTS is a secondary application and is limited to areas covered by these centers (often in ports, and where tss lanes exist).

Offshore AIS tracking can be done via the satellite (done by at least one company I know of). It is a commercial, paid service, and they may or may not keep any track of past pings from units that are not associated (paid for the service). They are not a governmental agenda and they may be limited in storing and processing of data that does not form part of their contractual business.

Please note that if Niņa lost her comms in one dramatic swipe (she did seem to have lost: Iridium, Spot, VHF(s)), then AIS could have been taken out by the same event - it is a VHF based system as you know.

b.
Spot does not need any external antenna, neither does a handheld Iridium sat phone, so not having any report from her is a very bad sign.
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