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Old 05-02-2008, 15:11   #16
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Damn! That was a buzz killer. It will take another 6-pak to get my dreams back.


(He's right though)
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Old 05-02-2008, 17:58   #17
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Okay, I'll ask again...what is a traffic separation lane? Screw it, I'll just Google it.
Also, I would NEVER attempt to do any kind of sailing without taking lessons from a competent sail instructor first. One of the reasons I am here is so that I can learn from you guys, and get a jump start on some of this stuff before I get on a boat so I'm not spending the whole week asking what the difference between the bow and the stern is. I have a friend who has done the trip to Hawaii a number of times, and another friend in Santa Monica that is a sail instructor. They have been giving me a lot of advice on what I should, and shouldn't be capable of, and they both know that I learn things a lot faster than most. I appreciate you guys looking out for my safety, but in the end it's up to me to decide if I'm ready to buy a boat, and then, if I'm ready to take it offshore. I'm not gonna sit on the dock forever daydreaming about leaving this god-forsaken country and sailing off to better, warmer, more peaceful places.
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Old 05-02-2008, 18:21   #18
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Gobi - NOT knowing how to sail puts a whole other slant on things. I think that we all initially presumed that you were a knowledgeable sailor. Sailing is not just about knowing that this line is called a halyard, and that one is a sheet, and if I pull this one my anchor comes up. There is a hell of a lot of practical experience needed .. even with a crew.

You want to do this solo. You THINK that it is just you, you have to worry about. It isn't. You could endanger others. Not only those on the water with whom you may sail near, but those that have to go out and try and rescue you.

But - the most important thing (according to you) is you want to know what a traffic lane is: They are the directional lanes in which 300,000 ton commercial vessels travel at 30+ knots and work with a controller (who can't see you either visibly or on radar). You've seen the results of Train vs. car? Nothing like that - First, the cargo ship won't even know that it hit you, second, no one else will either - there isn't much residue.

While hYlYte was a bit caustic in his reply - it was justified. And, he gave you excellent advice.
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Old 05-02-2008, 18:22   #19
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I'm not gonna sit on the dock forever daydreaming about leaving this god-forsaken country and sailing off to better, warmer, more peaceful places.
God-forsaken country?
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Old 05-02-2008, 18:35   #20
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But - the most important thing (according to you) is you want to know what a traffic lane is: They are the directional lanes in which 300,000 ton commercial vessels travel at 30+ knots and work with a controller (who can't see you either visibly or on radar). You've seen the results of Train vs. car? Nothing like that - First, the cargo ship won't even know that it hit you, second, no one else will either - there isn't much residue.
Ya, I figured that out about twenty seconds after I sent my reply. Look guys and gals, I'm not going anywhere until I understand how to sail...not until I have a good understanding of how to properly operate my boat and all of it's equipment. Not until I know the rules of the road...err sea. Not until I have a good understanding of what all the little lines and symbols on my charts mean, and not until I know how to handle the weather and traffic I'll have to deal with. I don't mind advice, in fact I really really appreciate it, but getting condescending, and barking at me like I'm a 5-year-old isn't going to change my mind about something, it'll just piss me off. All I've been doing lately is trolling these forums, and reading sailing books that I've been recommended. Obviously that's not the same thing as real world experience, but I will be much better prepared than most are when they get into this.
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:10   #21
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Don't be discouraged from setting out on your plan but certainly make sure that you have the ability to navigate using charts and compass. Go get yourself a copy of chart number 1 and charts covering your intended cruising area. Start looking them over now and buy some chartplotting gear so you can sit down at home and practice plotting courses. Learn how to read and use that chart. Take classes, solicit advice.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:42   #22
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Make sure you keep an eye on the weather. If a winter storm is coming through you should delay and wait for a window. Good luck.
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:52   #23
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Quote:
I appreciate you guys looking out for my safety, but in the end it's up to me to decide if I'm ready to buy a boat, and then, if I'm ready to take it offshore. I'm not gonna sit on the dock forever daydreaming about leaving this god-forsaken country and sailing off to better, warmer, more peaceful places.
Gobi--

The problem with the foregoing viewpoint is that--in the sailing venue --one's actions do not effect only oneself, particularly now in this "Reach out and Touch Someone world". In sailing, we are all effected by the poor judgment of others.

By the bozo that thinks he can simply pull out of a slip in a heavy cross wind because he has a "bow thruster"--and blows down on the yachts to leeward while he desperately thumbs his joystick and the little machine whines away accomplishing nothing--10 yachts damaged, and huge insurance bills, because some ignorant novice doesn't know how to use a warping line--

By the well-to-do novice that buys a Deerfoot 62, loads his family aboard, takes off and 5 days later, and 500 miles at sea, pop's his 406 because he's been caught in a gale for two days, doesn't know how to trim his boat for the conditions, his wife, infant child and dog have been sea-sick the whole time and he's exhausted and wants out. For his "rescue" the Coast Guard has to stage a helio out to a ship, and undertake a risky hovering refueling before it can reach him and finally having done so, discovers that there is no damage to the yacht what-so-ever but that the seas are towering and a rescue swimmer has to go into the water to get wife, child, dog and ignorant novice into a hoisting basket for evacuation. All these lives put at risk; and a perfectly sea-worthy, near million dollar, yacht abandoned ("..who cares. That's why I have insurance!")

I could sit here writing examples all day long but I have neither the time nor will. Rest assured, however, that one's actions afloat do have consequences for others. One's follies at sea can and do place other's lives and property at risk and, at the least, result in all of us having to pay hugely more for our insurance, and endure more governmental interference in it's efforts to "protect" the public from itself.

Frankly, my own viewpoint is that all of the wonderful technology that has emerged in the last 15 to 20 years has not been all that helpful. In the "good old daze", the fact that one actually had to know how to navigate and could not simply push a button to get a course heading kept a whole lott’a folks from sailing out of sight of land that had no business doing so. Boats were smaller, less complicated, more easily handled and in many respects more sea-worthy.

As for the “… God forsaken County…” comment, in fact, the US is a Paradise compared to most of the places you will visit as you travel by yacht. Wait ‘till you see what awaits you in much of the rest of the world!

Lastly, the sailing community is actually very small and, as a whole, very giving and ready to help one another--particularly here. It is one of the few places where what you do (or used to do), or what you have, really doesn’t matter much. It is, however, a place where one is judged by one’s judgment, or lack thereof, and fools are not long indulged. Further, while my comments may have seemed acidic, they were not intended to be so. I, and most of the sailor’s I know, are more prone to candor than diplomacy and tend to leave the touchy feely stuff ashore, especially where simple facts are so important.

G’day!

s/v HyLyte
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:05   #24
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svHyLyte - Outstanding and well said. Having re-built a good old boat and placeing a premium on the saftey of my family, I have yet to be tested. As I venture farther and longer off shore, I know it will come. When it happens, I will rely on my training and experience. The key for me is to not purposley place myself in danger, either by design or ignorance.

The first chance for this test will be a early April crossing of the San Pedro Channel to Santa Barbara Island and back. I will be with other experienced sailors and a few novices. The second will be a 10 days trip from San Pedro to San Deigo to 2 Harbors then home. I feel confident that these trips can be made safely in my boat with myself at the helm. The key is too sail with in your abilities. As your abilities expand, so will your cruising grounds. Next year, Mexico is a thought.

As to our yourng friend looking to take his soon to be purchased boat from SD to SB. It can be done with nice little coastal hops over a period of a week, by himself, if he keeps a weather eye. I would suggest that he takes his sailing freinds with him. Resist the temptation to visit Catalina on this trip, join Vessle Assist and always have a means to stay in contact.

Your abilities to make it to Hawaii will come sooner than you think if you keep expanding.
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:13   #25
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The last two posts say a lot.

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Next year, Mexico is a thought.
We have done almost exactly what you described. Started slow and worked on our skills. Made the trip to Catalina and beyond. Our next trip is back to Mexico and the SOC. We sailed around the San Carlos area a little before but have not made it across yet. This time we hope to. We leave for MX middle April.
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:24   #26
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Glad to hear it. Someday I hope to get to the Sea of Cortez. What do you expect weather wise this time of year? Most people head that far south in the fall to avoid hurricane season. Are you stayting north of Cabo for a time or just keep a damn good eye on any tropical depressions coming from C America.
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:44   #27
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We plan on warm sunny days with afternoon breezes at a constant 15 knts directly from the north and calm seas, oh, and a cooler stocked to overflowing with cerveza

Actually we have been there at that time. Usually it's pretty benign unless a norther blows through. Then you just hunker down for a few days and wait. We only have about three weeks. Will put in at San Carlos then across to the baja side. Maybe as far south as Concepcion.
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Old 06-02-2008, 13:37   #28
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I am envious. If you end up in La Paz, look for one Richard Booth on a 52' Irwin, ask for a beer and you just might get one.
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Old 06-02-2008, 15:07   #29
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Go get yourself a copy of chart number 1 and charts covering your intended cruising area. Start looking them over now and buy some chartplotting gear so you can sit down at home and practice plotting courses
I actually went a little overboard and downloaded every single NOAA vector and raster chart available online, as well as the pilots, and then bought copies of Fugawi ENC for my laptop and PathAway for my PocketPC. I've been having a good time obsessing over all the charts, and learning how to read them. I'm kind of a map dork.
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Old 16-02-2008, 07:35   #30
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I actually went a little overboard and downloaded every single NOAA vector and raster chart available online, as well as the pilots, and then bought copies of Fugawi ENC for my laptop and PathAway for my PocketPC. I've been having a good time obsessing over all the charts, and learning how to read them. I'm kind of a map dork.

I love maps as well. Got all the same charts you downloaded, plus purchased charts.

My comments on this thread would be:

First, if someone's tone bothers you, try to ignore the tone, and just look for the substance.

Second, look back at the information you gave, and then see if the reply maybe wasn't as out of line as it appeared. After you replied and gave more information, in 20/20 that first reply looks overboard. But when originally posted, wasn't really that bad.

Third, many times I post, not just thinking of the individual I'm replying to, but for the readers that follow. So the post you took offense was really a good post, it just turns out the maybe you didn't really need it because you've already heard it.

OK, enough of that crap. Two stories. These stories partly tie into what I said above, but also show that a long trip can be done by a novice if planned carefully, like it sounds like you intend to do.

I owned a 16' center console, but wanted something bigger. I paid cash for a 36' 1966 Pacemaker, wood hull, gas engines in New Jersey and brought it to Charleston, SC. That's 900+ miles by chart. I left the boat in New Jersey over the winter while planning with a friend of mine (owner of a 21'). Next Spring, we took 2 weeks to go over 1000 miles with not a hitch. Big point here, though. It was all in the ditch. For a description of this trip: Woodpile - The Trip

3 years later, having learned that boat payments for a newer (1982 Sea Ray 36', fiberglass and diesels) would be way less that just the yearly cost for wood repairs on the old boat, i bought my current boat. I gave the old one away. The story is about the gentleman that bought it from me. He said he was experienced with boats, been around them all his life. He spent 2 months at the marina getting ready to take the boat from Charleston back to Louisana. As I watched and helpd him get ready, I discovered he had no GPS and wasn't planning to buy any charts. He would "just follow the bouys". I quickly realized he had NO idea what he was getting into. I finally GAVE him an old GPS I had and loaned him about $500 worth of chartkits. He was very friendly, cooked creole and invited me over, was EXTREMELY grateful for the GPS and charts and the quick education I tried to give him. About 5 months after he left, the charts came back in the mail. No return address, no nothing. Given his personality, I am afraid that was bad news. Good news that the charts came back, but bad that there was no note, no nothing.

With stories like that, I think it's understandable that someone would reply to your first posts with some strong comments.

Looking back, what I did on that first trip was a bit naive, but considering the personalities of myself and my friend, we pulled it off. We had a person back home that we contacted daily and they would call the Coast Guard if they didn't hear from us, we had good life vests with strobe lights, made rules about calling each other on the personal radio before using the ladder to the bridge, had multiple GPSs, VHFs, paper charts, cruising guides, etc. and spent weeks studying Chapman's and the cruising guides. For novices I think we were well prepared. Still, I wouldn't dream of tackling a run to Hawaii without several months experience, and then very cautiously.

Anyway, sorry if all this is really just rambling drivel. I left out a lot of detail to keep this from getting REALLY long.

If the very small amount I know about you from those little posts are correct, then it sounds like you have a good attitude to start. Just remember, you can't get too many warnings. You can't plan too much. You can never have too much experience.

I need to write a description of the Sea Ray trip from the Keys back to Charleston...
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