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View Poll Results: Which route would you sail from SE Asia to Europe spring 2013?
Suez channel 3 12.00%
Around Cape of Good Hope (Hurricane season) 12 48.00%
None, hold your ground! 10 40.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2013, 12:08   #16
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Security contractors cost too much even for a convoy. It would be about $50,000 for Salalah to the bottom of the bottom of the Red Sea (13deg north if I remember correctly) so that doesn't cover Cochin to Salalah where most vessels are taken.

The reason for the drop off in number of captures is that cargo ships have now been allowed to have armed guards on board. So the Somalis will be even more hungry for a lightly defended sailing boat. No matter how many guns you have on the convoy (I doubt there will be an convoys this year) you can't intimidate 8 zealots all with AK47s.

I think your only option is to do the Cape of Good Hope in the correct season, ie not the hurricane season!

It is all difficult, but you can't sail in the wrong season and you can't expose yourselves to pirates.


Mark
We have never NOT been allowed to carry professional security teams. This has always been an option. The only problem has been orchestrating team boarding and weps loading and offloading. The laws in the various countries can be hard to keep track of!

The pirates are not zealots, either. They are robbers looking for the richest and easiest score possible. Return fire will definitely send them looking for someone who doesn't shoot back. They don't want a challenge. They want to return home safely, sans bullet holes. Don't confuse terrorists with pirates.

For a yacht to shadow a big ship would be quite a trick. Does your sailboat do 16 to 24 knots? BUT you can use the IRTC (Internationally Recognized Transit Corridor) and keep all the navy guys posted on your position, speed and course. There are mixed feelings about using the IRTC though. Some feel that it only concentrates the victims for the pirates' convenience. But my money is on following the IRTC if you must transit the Gulf of Aden area. Personally, I don't much like the idea still, even though attacks are on the decrease. I have been through there many times on ships since this whole piracy thing got out of hand. Many times on slow and small ships. They never attempt a boarding if alert and armed individuals are seen on deck. Without them, you are a target.
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Old 14-01-2013, 07:17   #17
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

Awesome. Thank's for all replies!
As we speak we just got answer from sevenstar yacht transport.
46000 USD for Mali -> Marmaris. Seriously. Is that carrier made of gold or something?
Democritus once said: "Happiness resides not in possessions, and not in gold, happiness dwells in the soul." Oh snap! Does that mean they are soul-less? And what kind of soul-less people sail on transport vessel's? A 46000 USD bribe for the ferryman is likely to wreck the ferryman marked and leave me alone in hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
as a viable alternative for those wanting to leave se asia during the ne monsoon(dec-march) and the limited time one is allowed to spend in chagos(1 month).

i would recommend leaving thailand in january,with a stop in the maldives,then heading for the seychells arriving by the end of march.
then heading south via the mozambique channel in april,capetown could be reached by may and feasibly cruise to the carib spending time in brazil and arriving at the end of hurricane season(june-dec) in trinidad.

the south atlantic does not have cyclones and sailing from cape town can safely be done in any month with an eye on the weather.
Never thought about the Mozambique channel. AFAIK most of the cyclones pass out when they reach the west side of Madagascar (~12'S -> 25'S) and there are several good hurricane holes all the way down (starting with Russian Bay)

Although cruiserswiki do not agree:
Quote:
"It is not wise to consider cruising in the Mozambique Channel between November and May as this is both the rainy and cyclone season."
Anyone that have done this leg in the cyclone season?
precluded for the wise and doable for those without watermaker?
Cheers, kevin.
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Old 14-01-2013, 07:34   #18
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Chin up mate.. according to the news the pirate chiefs are packing up and going home... maybe you'll make the Suez Canal after all..
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Old 14-01-2013, 07:58   #19
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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By the way, I would consider going the other way, from the Med southwards.
Because in Marmaris, Turkey you can buy semi automatic shotguns without a license on presentation of your passport.
Then sail direct to Pt Said.
The effective range of a shotgun requires waiting until the pirates are actually boarding or already aboard. I'd rather have a light 50BMG rifle, such as a Barrett. Unfortunately they cost about $5000 and I have no idea where in the area one could be purchased. Turkey?
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Old 14-01-2013, 10:24   #20
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjobein View Post
Awesome. Thank's for all replies!
As we speak we just got answer from sevenstar yacht transport.
46000 USD for Mali -> Marmaris. Seriously. Is that carrier made of gold or something?
Democritus once said: "Happiness resides not in possessions, and not in gold, happiness dwells in the soul." Oh snap! Does that mean they are soul-less? And what kind of soul-less people sail on transport vessel's? A 46000 USD bribe for the ferryman is likely to wreck the ferryman marked and leave me alone in hell?



Never thought about the Mozambique channel. AFAIK most of the cyclones pass out when they reach the west side of Madagascar (~12'S -> 25'S) and there are several good hurricane holes all the way down (starting with Russian Bay)

Although cruiserswiki do not agree:


Anyone that have done this leg in the cyclone season?
precluded for the wise and doable for those without watermaker?
Cheers, kevin.
i have done the mozambique channel going north in march,and going south january,both times we ended up motoring most of the way on glassy seas.
left richards bay one time in a 45 knot sw gale and surfed for 2 days!

tropical depressions coming from the north tend to follow the west coast of mada and track south before becoming stronger.

it is the storms that arrive from the south of the island you need to watch,as they will cross the channel towards the african coast,and are generally much stronger well formed storms..

meteo france out of reunion supplies the best weather info for the region.

i have cruised year round betweeen east africa,comores and madagasgar,even at the hight of the cyclone season.
during cyclone season the only really dangerous strech is between tulear,mozambique island and richards bay with regards to cyclones.

july and august are the worst for sw gales,but these happen all year round,and give the south african coast a bad rep.
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Old 14-01-2013, 11:28   #21
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The effective range of a shotgun requires waiting until the pirates are actually boarding or already aboard. I'd rather have a light 50BMG rifle, such as a Barrett. Unfortunately they cost about $5000 and I have no idea where in the area one could be purchased. Turkey?
That price sounds like a semi-auto. A single shot or bolt repeater will be less.

If you want something that will reach out and touch someone, and you want semiauto, have a look at Springfield Armory's M1A. This is basically an aftermarket M14 with no provision for a selector switch to enable full auto operation. It is tack driving accurate, especially in match grade but you don't need .5 MOA accuracy on a sailboat anyway. The .308 round is quite good for distance. This is a wonderful rifle to shoot and if you get some GOOD instruction, you can be doing scary things to man sized targets 600 or more yards away in a couple of weeks. I could make you a pretty fair 300 yard rifleman in a couple of hours if you have any aptitude at all, with this rifle. The M14 is THE rifleman's rifle, and the M1A is if anything better than the original. SOCOM and also a Chinese company whose name escapes me (Norinco, maybe?) also make M14 clones but the Chinese while very cheap are of less than stellar quality. Still I would rather be the guy shooting the Chinese M14 than the rusty old AK. At long ranges the M14 will be hitting a LOT harder. The AK at over 100 yards, in untrained hands, from a bobbing skiff, is a spray and pray kind of weapon. The M14 in trained hands still suffers from a moving platform but it will put the fear of death in an attacker if you do your part with your first couple of rounds. Disciplined, accurate fire is sure to have a chilling effect on a pirate attack.

But here's the rub with any rifle intended for use at long ranges. You gonna shoot at someone who has not yet clearly demonstrated an intent to board or attack you? You WILL DEFINITELY GO TO PRISON, SOMEWHERE. For a very long time, probably longer than you can survive. Even if you know they are pirates. You must be clearly and definitely in danger, not "probably" in danger before you open fire. It sucks but you are pretty much stuck with waiting until they brandish weapons in a meaningful way, or actually attempt to board after you warn them away. That is when maybe it is better to have a semiauto shotgun than a tack driving .308 or .50BMG. Just sayin. Two shotguns better than one.

Unfortunately even if you drive the bad guys off with superior firepower, you might catch a round or two. And possibly die. You need some cover of some kind. Something that will STOP a bullet intended for you, that you can shoot from behind. Something to think about. A 1/2" or so steel plate backed up by sandbags in your cockpit on either side might be nice. A kevlar helmet. These things are surprisingly expensive though. I know an AK round fired straight-on at short-ish range will penetrate 1/4" mild steel but I doubt it will do 1/2". Better try it at home, though, before you listen to me.

If you are serious enough about this to carry weapons, (and you may have a problem transiting the Suez Canal with them, BTW) then you should be serious enough to implement other precautions like sailing in company with several other boats, keeping a good watch at all times, having a good 3cm radar which usually WILL detect small boats at short range, checking in with UKMTO and EUNAVFOR, and other precautions outlined in the "Best Management Practices", http://www.mts.gov.eg/documents/pdfs/arabic/mschoa.pdf that are relevant to your boat.
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Old 14-01-2013, 11:46   #22
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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That price sounds like a semi-auto. A single shot or bolt repeater will be less.

If you want something that will reach out and touch someone, and you want semiauto, have a look at Springfield Armory's M1A. This is basically an aftermarket M14 with no provision for a selector switch to enable full auto operation. It is tack driving accurate, especially in match grade but you don't need .5 MOA accuracy on a sailboat anyway. The .308 round is quite good for distance. This is a wonderful rifle to shoot and if you get some GOOD instruction, you can be doing scary things to man sized targets 600 or more yards away in a couple of weeks. I could make you a pretty fair 300 yard rifleman in a couple of hours if you have any aptitude at all, with this rifle. The M14 is THE rifleman's rifle, and the M1A is if anything better than the original. SOCOM and also a Chinese company whose name escapes me (Norinco, maybe?) also make M14 clones but the Chinese while very cheap are of less than stellar quality. Still I would rather be the guy shooting the Chinese M14 than the rusty old AK. At long ranges the M14 will be hitting a LOT harder. The AK at over 100 yards, in untrained hands, from a bobbing skiff, is a spray and pray kind of weapon. The M14 in trained hands still suffers from a moving platform but it will put the fear of death in an attacker if you do your part with your first couple of rounds. Disciplined, accurate fire is sure to have a chilling effect on a pirate attack.

But here's the rub with any rifle intended for use at long ranges. You gonna shoot at someone who has not yet clearly demonstrated an intent to board or attack you? You WILL DEFINITELY GO TO PRISON, SOMEWHERE. For a very long time, probably longer than you can survive. Even if you know they are pirates. You must be clearly and definitely in danger, not "probably" in danger before you open fire. It sucks but you are pretty much stuck with waiting until they brandish weapons in a meaningful way, or actually attempt to board after you warn them away. That is when maybe it is better to have a semiauto shotgun than a tack driving .308 or .50BMG. Just sayin. Two shotguns better than one.

Unfortunately even if you drive the bad guys off with superior firepower, you might catch a round or two. And possibly die. You need some cover of some kind. Something that will STOP a bullet intended for you, that you can shoot from behind. Something to think about. A 1/2" or so steel plate backed up by sandbags in your cockpit on either side might be nice. A kevlar helmet. These things are surprisingly expensive though. I know an AK round fired straight-on at short-ish range will penetrate 1/4" mild steel but I doubt it will do 1/2". Better try it at home, though, before you listen to me.

If you are serious enough about this to carry weapons, (and you may have a problem transiting the Suez Canal with them, BTW) then you should be serious enough to implement other precautions like sailing in company with several other boats, keeping a good watch at all times, having a good 3cm radar which usually WILL detect small boats at short range, checking in with UKMTO and EUNAVFOR, and other precautions outlined in the "Best Management Practices", http://www.mts.gov.eg/documents/pdfs/arabic/mschoa.pdf that are relevant to your boat.
Yes, for $5000 that's a semi-auto 50BMG rifle. Effective range is about 2000 yards. That means you get about a hundred chances to hit the pirates before they get within AK-47 or RPG range. At 600 yards, BMG50 will punch holes through 1" steel plate.

As for the idea of going to jail, if you're in international waters, there is virtually no way in the world to get prosecuted for shooting at Somali pirates. The worst case would be getting hauled before a Somali court but, even then, prosecution would seem unlikely. No other country in the world would even claim jurisdiction in the matter. Even Somali pirates have been released because of jurisdictional difficulties. If EUNAVFOR were to catch you in the act, have video of you shooting at the pirates, and have proof that you shot first, you still wouldn't be prosecuted for the simple reason that no country has clear jurisdiction to prosecute and no country has a political interest in prosecuting.

I agree about sandbags and a helmet, as well as sailing in a convoy if possible.
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:15   #23
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
That price sounds like a semi-auto. A single shot or bolt repeater will be less.

If you want something that will reach out and touch someone, and you want semiauto, have a look at Springfield Armory's M1A. This is basically an aftermarket M14 with no provision for a selector switch to enable full auto operation. It is tack driving accurate, especially in match grade but you don't need .5 MOA accuracy on a sailboat anyway. The .308 round is quite good for distance. This is a wonderful rifle to shoot and if you get some GOOD instruction, you can be doing scary things to man sized targets 600 or more yards away in a couple of weeks. I could make you a pretty fair 300 yard rifleman in a couple of hours if you have any aptitude at all, with this rifle. The M14 is THE rifleman's rifle, and the M1A is if anything better than the original. SOCOM and also a Chinese company whose name escapes me (Norinco, maybe?) also make M14 clones but the Chinese while very cheap are of less than stellar quality. Still I would rather be the guy shooting the Chinese M14 than the rusty old AK. At long ranges the M14 will be hitting a LOT harder. The AK at over 100 yards, in untrained hands, from a bobbing skiff, is a spray and pray kind of weapon. The M14 in trained hands still suffers from a moving platform but it will put the fear of death in an attacker if you do your part with your first couple of rounds. Disciplined, accurate fire is sure to have a chilling effect on a pirate attack.

But here's the rub with any rifle intended for use at long ranges. You gonna shoot at someone who has not yet clearly demonstrated an intent to board or attack you? You WILL DEFINITELY GO TO PRISON, SOMEWHERE. For a very long time, probably longer than you can survive. Even if you know they are pirates. You must be clearly and definitely in danger, not "probably" in danger before you open fire. It sucks but you are pretty much stuck with waiting until they brandish weapons in a meaningful way, or actually attempt to board after you warn them away. That is when maybe it is better to have a semiauto shotgun than a tack driving .308 or .50BMG. Just sayin. Two shotguns better than one.

Unfortunately even if you drive the bad guys off with superior firepower, you might catch a round or two. And possibly die. You need some cover of some kind. Something that will STOP a bullet intended for you, that you can shoot from behind. Something to think about. A 1/2" or so steel plate backed up by sandbags in your cockpit on either side might be nice. A kevlar helmet. These things are surprisingly expensive though. I know an AK round fired straight-on at short-ish range will penetrate 1/4" mild steel but I doubt it will do 1/2". Better try it at home, though, before you listen to me.

If you are serious enough about this to carry weapons, (and you may have a problem transiting the Suez Canal with them, BTW) then you should be serious enough to implement other precautions like sailing in company with several other boats, keeping a good watch at all times, having a good 3cm radar which usually WILL detect small boats at short range, checking in with UKMTO and EUNAVFOR, and other precautions outlined in the "Best Management Practices", http://www.mts.gov.eg/documents/pdfs/arabic/mschoa.pdf that are relevant to your boat.
you guys seem to have missed the point of the thread,ideally from a sailing point of view firearms and sandbags would not be needed.
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:16   #24
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Yes, for $5000 that's a semi-auto 50BMG rifle. Effective range is about 2000 yards. That means you get about a hundred chances to hit the pirates before they get within AK-47 or RPG range. At 600 yards, BMG50 will punch holes through 1" steel plate.

As for the idea of going to jail, if you're in international waters, there is virtually no way in the world to get prosecuted for shooting at Somali pirates. The worst case would be getting hauled before a Somali court but, even then, prosecution would seem unlikely. No other country in the world would even claim jurisdiction in the matter. Even Somali pirates have been released because of jurisdictional difficulties. If EUNAVFOR were to catch you in the act, have video of you shooting at the pirates, and have proof that you shot first, you still wouldn't be prosecuted for the simple reason that no country has clear jurisdiction to prosecute and no country has a political interest in prosecuting.

I agree about sandbags and a helmet, as well as sailing in a convoy if possible.
you guys seem to have missed the point of the thread,ideally from a sailing point of view firearms and sandbags would not be needed.
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:17   #25
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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you guys seem to have missed the point of the thread,ideally from a sailing point of view firearms and sandbags would not be needed.
Ideally, weapons would not be needed, but I would rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them. It's a rough neighbourhood.
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:23   #26
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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Ideally, weapons would not be needed, but I would rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them. It's a rough neighbourhood.
your opinions are better suited to "GUNS AND AMMO" websites
if you do not have anything constructive to say in regards to SAILING via the indian ocean and the med or south atlantic please leave it out
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:35   #27
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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your opinions are better suited to "GUNS AND AMMO" websites
Your opinion is noted.

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if you do not have anything constructive to say in regards to SAILING via the indian ocean and the med or south atlantic please leave it out
GrowleyMonster and I made constructive suggestions about sailing prepared for the dangers which face sailors near the Gulf of Aden. If you prefer to sail unprepared, that's your business.
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:44   #28
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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Your opinion is noted.


GrowleyMonster and I made constructive suggestions about sailing prepared for the dangers which face sailors near the Gulf of Aden. If you prefer to sail unprepared, that's your business.
nothing wrong with being prepared
,but as far as i can see fighting off pirates was not part of the discussion.

finding a viable alternative route or risking a red sea transit was the discussion topic....
.NOT GUNS AND AMMO on big ships
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Old 14-01-2013, 13:58   #29
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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you guys seem to have missed the point of the thread,ideally from a sailing point of view firearms and sandbags would not be needed.
Ideally they would not be needed. True. And the Egyptians will not allow you to transit the canal with them. Of course that does leave the small matter of what to do if you are attacked by pirates. Just sayin. You can't just close your eyes, click your heels together, and say, "There's no place like home" and everything is better. Whether they are ideally not needed, or not, is irrelevant in the face of reality. Let's hope that none of us ever face a pirate attack in the Gulf of Aden or elsewhere. Preparedness for the what-if is an individual choice.
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Old 14-01-2013, 14:01   #30
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Re: Sailing through suez channel 2013

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your opinions are better suited to "GUNS AND AMMO" websites
if you do not have anything constructive to say in regards to SAILING via the indian ocean and the med or south atlantic please leave it out
I second this!!!!

And please God, protect us from people who are false courageous or stupid brave as we pass though our lives!
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