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Old 21-02-2014, 18:47   #1
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Reefing

I just bought a Compac 27/2 with single line jiffy reefing. It has WAY TOO MUCH friction to reef from the cockpit, so I think I will go with a double line setup and use blocks on the cringles. I was wondering, what do most of you do with the flaked sail when it is lying on the boom? Don't you have to tie it down to keep it from flying away if on a beam reach or the equivalent? If so, what is the advantage of doing the reefing from the cockpit when you have to go forward to tie the sail down?
It is a mystery!!
Thanks
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Old 22-02-2014, 02:09   #2
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Re: Reefing

If only reefing for a short period, it's not strictly necessary to tidy up the reefed panel, provided the clew is set up so that it is prevented from coming off the horns on the gooseneck.

There are ways of rigging up shock cord and hooks along the boom which mean you can (if desired) tidy up just the part you can reach from the cockpit, which usually restores a certain amount of clear view forwards, and cuts some of the windage.

However you have put your finger on one of several reasons most people think single-line jiffy reefing is not a very satisfactory setup.
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Old 22-02-2014, 02:28   #3
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Re: Reefing

I never did like single line systems, and now have the old Hood style in mast reefing. But the best in my opinion is 2 line, all reefs lead aft to the cockpit, and to solve your issue, what I think is called a Dutchman* lazy line system to collect the main, preferably fully battened within a set of fabric side pieces that double as a zip up sail cover. Dreadful description but it does work!
* Yes, I just Googled Dutchman and it gives you a much better description!
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Old 22-02-2014, 03:38   #4
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Reefing

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Originally Posted by Tim Godber View Post
I never did like single line systems, and now have the old Hood style in mast reefing. But the best in my opinion is 2 line, all reefs lead aft to the cockpit, and to solve your issue, what I think is called a Dutchman* lazy line system to collect the main, preferably fully battened within a set of fabric side pieces that double as a zip up sail cover. Dreadful description but it does work!
* Yes, I just Googled Dutchman and it gives you a much better description!
Generally known as a stackpack system

Dave
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Old 22-02-2014, 15:20   #5
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Re: Reefing

Have two line reefing on my 15' long foot main. Have reefed to the 3rd reef point without gathering in the bunt of the sail. I've always reefed successively leaving each reef tied in as the next one is pulled down which probably helps in keeping the bunt under control.

Having separate lines for the tack and the clew pull in quite easily with minimum resistance. Can reef without easing the sheet though pulling the last couple of feet of clew reefing line does require some cranking on the winch in those conditions. Do not need any kind of blocks on the sail. Blocks in the system are only there to turn the lines at the boom, mast, deck etc as they lead back to the cockpit. Hauling in the reef has never been a problem because of friction.

Have sailed on a couple of smaller boats, under 30', with single line reefing. Was not impressed. The friction of running so much line over and around so many turns and twists created a bunch of resistance. The last boat I sailed on, it took two people to reef, one in the cockpit tailing the reefing line and one at the mast to shake the sail and haul on the line to keep the line running freely. Way more difficult than an at the mast reefing set up.

If you feel the need, the cringes on the body of the sail along the reef footl are there to attach lines to tie up the bunt. Lines should go around the sail but not around the boom and are there only to gather in the bunt of the sail.
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Old 23-02-2014, 17:49   #6
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Re: Reefing

I haven't tied the bundt in many years. I still have the cringles but no longer have the points in place. A neatly gathered and tied bundt may look negligibly neater but I am no longer a slave to fashion.
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Old 23-02-2014, 18:01   #7
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Re: Reefing

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I haven't tied the bundt in many years. I still have the cringles but no longer have the points in place. A neatly gathered and tied bundt may look negligibly neater but I am no longer a slave to fashion.
+1 Why bother unless you plan to do so for a long time.

It's also easier to un-reef when you want to. No need to go up on deck.
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Old 23-02-2014, 19:40   #8
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Re: Reefing

Reefing in any kind of wind is a risky business. Tying in the gaskets is desirable, but not necessary, have a look at the photo's of the famous Sydney to Hobart race when the winds were off the scale. Mains were reefed right down, but the gaskets were left with the loose sail flapping in the wind and they did just fine
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Old 23-02-2014, 21:32   #9
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Re: Reefing

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Generally known as a stackpack system

Dave
The stack pack generally uses lazyjacks to collect in a bag.

The Dutchman uses nylon lines threaded through the main sail. The sail cover has to accommodate the nylon lines. Or in some cases it can be stowed before the cover is put on, but they have to be deployed for a hoist.

Personally I do not like either system. Give me stowable lazy jacks and a real sail cover and I am happy.

Single line reefing does induce a lot of friction which is not found with a ram's horn or dual ling reefing.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:20   #10
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Re: Reefing

I also have a Compac 27-2. My jiffy reef was working poorly. I put two new blocks and lubricated the car in the boom. Works fairly well now, so I'll stick with it for now
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:39   #11
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Re: Reefing

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Originally Posted by Neil Holck View Post
I just bought a Compac 27/2 with single line jiffy reefing. It has WAY TOO MUCH friction to reef from the cockpit, so I think I will go with a double line setup and use blocks on the cringles. I was wondering, what do most of you do with the flaked sail when it is lying on the boom? Don't you have to tie it down to keep it from flying away if on a beam reach or the equivalent? If so, what is the advantage of doing the reefing from the cockpit when you have to go forward to tie the sail down?
It is a mystery!!
Thanks
Yep Single line reefing is a PITA. Tried it and never went back. And you are right, the odds of "Not going forward" are really not that good. Keep it simple with little friction. Over the years I found the simplicity of "everything at the mast" to be what I like.
I suppose the advantage is getting the boat heel under control with a quick reef, then tying up when convenient.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:57   #12
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Re: Reefing

Funny, we have two reef points on single line systems and love it.

I did add some additional blocks on the downhauls. But I found keeping everything lubed up with some McLube and it works great. I did find that when we bought the boat the system had a ton of friction. But that appeared to be because the previous owner never sailed the boat (10 years old when we bought her and the sails were still crispy and less than 500 hours on the engine). So I took a day and really cleaned and lubed the system and have had no problems since.

We often reef underway without leaving the cockpit. The Dutchman keeps the flaked sail on the boom and we don't have to do the intermittent ties. As Stu pointed out, you can also shake the reef from the cockpit. In New England the winds don't ever seem to be stable, especially near land. You could head out with a 10 knot east wind and have 25 knot southwest wind within an hour. Being able to reef quickly and easily is a real plus.

I find it to be a great added safety feature. If we can sail without leaving the cockpit in rough weather I like it. Going forward is Buzzards Bay snot or some other crappy weather is just not fun. Yes we have out jacklines and are clipped in but I would still prefer to avoid it.

Hey, everyone likes something different but that's why there are so many options.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:40   #13
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Re: Reefing

I installed two line (per reef) reefing a while ago. It has worked really great. To reef I just sail on the jib with the main luffing, with the autopilot set.

I like having separate control over the clew reefing line tension, which sets the flatness of the sail.

I have blocks at the mast base, and a block at both tack points. Not essential, but it keeps friction down a bit.

If anything goes wrong, the existing horn is still installed on the boom so I just run forward and reef the old fashioned way. This has only happened once, when a tack line came free.

The clew lines loop under the boom, and thus help support the bunt of the sail. I will tension the 2nd tack line, even when using the first reef, to support the bunt. The bunt thus never hangs down by more than 6", so I don't bother with it.

As I find flaking the sail a bit hairy in the estuary (too much traffic around), I put both reefs in and then scandalize the main too (drop it a couple of feet). As long as it isn't very windy, I can motor into my slip without any issues from thrust from the sail. The clew lines keep the bunt supported.

I only fully flake the main if it's very windy and I'll be making a downwind approach.

It's nice to be able to reef and un-reef the main, relatively easily, as in SF Bay a typical sail will have you going from 5 kts, to 25, to 5, to 25, and then back to 5 kts of wind again.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:44   #14
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Re: Reefing

I only tie off the sail if doing a passage, otherwise, often a reef goes in and comes out as the wind varies. The avatar on the left shows my HC38 after getting hammered between islands in the Caribe. Often there is no wind in the lee of the island and then the open water in between can be up to 40 knots and huge seas! I guess the wind funnels in between.
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