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Old 13-02-2012, 19:36   #46
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

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Originally Posted by Sailagain View Post
That's one of the first things my instructor said about GPS and setting track lines (that could be used with autopilot). Always go to the side of the buoy. Also when setting way point marks - be ultra careful you aren't zoomed out too far - because you could place the way point on a wreck, rocks or other marker - then your way point marker will cover over whatever is under it.
Another precaution: If you get a route from a published source, don't use it directly! Plot yourself a course 50-100 feet off. That way you don't run head on into another person following the same route the opposite direction.

-dan
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Old 13-02-2012, 19:39   #47
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

PS, my boat's lifted, on the hard and inside a locked shed, do you think Im safe. Getting worried now after all these learned posts. I really "trust" the interwebby thingy

Dave
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Old 13-02-2012, 20:09   #48
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PS, my boat's lifted, on the hard and inside a locked shed, do you think Im safe. Getting worried now after all these learned posts. I really "trust" the interwebby thingy

Dave
Gimme the shed coordinates... I'll try to hack Marks MacBook over his 3G Internet link and change his waypoint

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 15-02-2012, 20:13   #49
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

Well, this thread is a bit of a surprise. We haven't hit anything yet and I think we are in the approximate place we were aiming for. Hard to tell because we were either asleep, watching videos or having wild monkey sex the whole time (at one time, all three simultaneously) and didn't have time to go above and look around.

I finally found some calm water yesterday to calibrate the compass, so the pointy ends now face the correct way.

Anjou is very perceptive - we are carrying (literally, I measured it) 1000lbs of liquid refreshments in that starboard hull along with several hundred pounds of less important provisions. One of the things one does for friends when returning from the city to the hinterlands.

Our steer to wind works very well and is appropriately responsive to the wind, while dampened sufficiently to ignore pitch and roll of the masthead. It was this way on our 14yr old B&G autopilot also. The more I hear about Raymarine, the happier I am that none of it is on our boat.

And Nick will have a hard time hacking us over our 3G link because 3G is a pipe dream out here!

Thanks for the thoughts - I won't be very active here anymore due to limited connection and we have 1000lbs of liquids to recycle...

Mark
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Old 28-02-2012, 10:54   #50
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

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Study the following image carefully as this is one of the few pictures known to exist of this dangerous boat, where complacency is sure to make the Siren's song be heard!
ciao!
Nick.
Wow!

It brings some (admittedly trivial and transitory) pleasure to see I got under your skin so Nicky!

BTW...

Just got my new X-5 Wheelpilot delivered to the door last week...

I am getting the boat ready for some extended solo sailing in the Lakes starting this summer.

Was browsing through the Great Lakes Sailing Society's website, as the Solo Mac is something I may just try my hand in once I get to know the conditions there (this year will be for prudent baby stepping).

Anyway, found this mighty interesting little snippet in their 2012 Sailing Directions:

19. SPECIAL AIDS
The use of electronic navigational aids (i.e., GPS, Radar and LORAN) is permissible. However, such devices shall not be connected to control the boat's self-steering system.

Huh...

Imagine that.
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Old 07-04-2012, 00:21   #51
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Re: Reckless behavior of CF member !

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Factor-

I doubt it. Autopilots steer to a compass. When in "wind" mode the autopilot slowly changes the desired heading to follow the change in the average wind. Thus it does not respond to short term changes in wind direction. Nor can it "parry puffs" (i.e. respond to short-term change in apparent wind angle due to changes in wind strength). I've had a wind sensor on my autopilot - next to useless and certainly nothing like a wind vane.
You are absolutely wrong here. NKE has been developing pilots that can out steer a human and a vane any day of the week. They are in wide use on Mini Transat boats, most all of the solo circumnavigation race boats, etc.

Modern competition autopilots incorporate input from rate gyros and have accelerometers built in to account for wave state, puffs, surfing, etc. In fact the most recent NKE pilots will even steer properly when a light boat is surfing PAST it's hull speed and overtakes the wind. I've personally experienced this on a Classe 40. The NKE HR Gyropilot will out steer any vane in those conditions hands down. In many cases it'll out steer a human being.

In fact, in surfing conditions anyone who can show me a situation where your vane will prevent you from wiping out and I'll buy you a beer.

I know of two people who have done more autopilot assisted miles than most will do in two lifetimes (one in the Mini Transat) and they will back me up on this.

Have a quick look at this video at about 1 minute.. Let's see your vane do that:



or at 40 seconds on this one:



and 40 seconds in on this one:



..and that was before NKE developed the HR Pilot.
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Old 07-04-2012, 00:31   #52
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Re: Reckless behavior of CF member !

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Well I have had multiple (i.e. at least 4) Raymarine autopilots, the current one being an SPX. I know what Raymarine has in the literature, but I also know how they work. Because masthead wind indicators are so unstable they have to average the results over a pretty significant amount of time. Thus they cannot respond quickly to changes in wind direction.
The Raymarine pilots are extremely primitive pilots and their wind instruments are complete garbage.

Both B&G and NKE make pilots and wind sensors that incorporate rate gyros, accelerometers and corrections for mast height, upwash, etc. which can refine a properly calibrated solution to better than 1 degree accuracy for TRUE WIND ANGLE not just AWA when teamed up with the right compass (something with it's own rate gyros like NKE's 90-60-395 Regatta compass or Airmar's H2183. Both incorporate 3-Axis Compass, 3-Axis Accelerometer, 3-Axis Rate Gyro. These systems do this at 25Hz rates. Response is a matter of sophistication and cpu speed. Raymarine's pilots suck in both departments.

Granted these solutions are not for everyone as they require regular care and feeding (read calibration), but you're making a blanket statement about all autopilots based on the Yugo of marine electronics.

Once again we go to the video tape (Jim Burwick's Open 40 and NKE pilot. No vane there mate.):

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Old 07-04-2012, 01:09   #53
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pirate Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

Very reckless Jedi.... anyone only 4 berths away from me is being reckless....
Was that the wife just arrived....???
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:35   #54
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

I have a Garmin GPS and integrated Raymarine Auto pilot,

It is not connected to the wind vane, Broken,

I set it for a straight line to where I am going, Upwind, Down wind, And except for the south entrance to the Burnett River at Bundaberg. Plus 13 miles up the Burnett River and back,

I found it to be dead accurate, within a couple of feet, and thats close enough for me,

Fiji, Vanuatu, and down the east coast of Australia,

Entering inlets at night, I could see the walls on both sides,
The GPS was allways smack on the button,
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:57   #55
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Very reckless Jedi.... anyone only 4 berths away from me is being reckless....
Was that the wife just arrived....???


Welcome to Shelter Bay ! Don't drink all the rum in the bar, I want some for the potluck tonight

ciao,
Nick.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:30   #56
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

if he gets to eastern pacific and western mexico, let me know---i will lookout for him and his multihulled mayhem....
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Old 07-04-2012, 15:46   #57
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Re: Reckless Behavior of CF Member !

It's a pity you didn't stop off in Portobelo on the way, Boatman61, but I guess you are on a delivery after all. How are you going for line handlers? Let me know if you can't find enough in Shelter Bay and we will gladly help out.
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Old 07-04-2012, 18:06   #58
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Originally Posted by JoeFish

The Raymarine pilots are extremely primitive pilots and their wind instruments are complete garbage.

Both B&G and NKE make pilots and wind sensors that incorporate rate gyros, accelerometers and corrections for mast height, upwash, etc. which can refine a properly calibrated solution to better than 1 degree accuracy for TRUE WIND ANGLE not just AWA when teamed up with the right compass (something with it's own rate gyros like NKE's 90-60-395 Regatta compass or Airmar's H2183. Both incorporate 3-Axis Compass, 3-Axis Accelerometer, 3-Axis Rate Gyro. These systems do this at 25Hz rates. Response is a matter of sophistication and cpu speed. Raymarine's pilots suck in both departments.

Granted these solutions are not for everyone as they require regular care and feeding (read calibration), but you're making a blanket statement about all autopilots based on the Yugo of marine electronics.

Once again we go to the video tape (Jim Burwick's Open 40 and NKE pilot. No vane there mate.):

Drawing comparisons between. Open 40 nke autopilots and those available to the average sailor is nonsense. Such nke pilots are expensive containing customised software specifically tuned to the boat in question. Any pilot using that type of solution is going to perform better then average.

The ordinary current crop of autopilots are also very good, Rays pilots in my opinion having sailed 1000s of miles with many of the companies versions are a good pilot. All now contain rate gyros and accelerometers. I've found them very good pilots especially in downwind quartering seas.

Ps what's a three axis compass.

Secondly true Wind angle is of no use whatsoever to an autopilot accurate to 1degree or otherwise. CPU speed is no longer an issue the current crop of mocrocontrollers are simply way faster then needed , as the control solution for a yacht is comparitively slow.

Dave
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