Pre-1960 TCI charts, etc?

[Canibul]

In 1960 Hurricane Donna changed the topography of the Turks and Caicos Islands. The country was under the rule of the Bahamas at the time. The storm filled in channels between several of the islands NE of Providenciales.

I am trying to locate a source for charts, topo maps, or aerial photos prior to 1960. I KNOW the US military had a base on Grand Turk, and of course the Cuban Missle Crisis was around then, as well, so I know there must be information on these islands SOMEWHERE!!

Any thoughts on where to look would be appreciated. I have spent literally hours online and still havent found something as simple as a nautical chart from the 1950s for this area.

[GordMay]

Take a look at “TCI-C16"
http://www.turksandcaicos.tc/landfall/images/map.gif

You might find something at “Old Wold Auctions”:
http://www.oldworldauctions.com/list...3&numrecords=5

[Canibul]

Thanks, Gord. I had already seen a lot of those, but they are not much help.

Strange that I can find charts from the 1700's quite easily, but cannot locate a nautical chart or aerial photo from WWII or the 1950's. You just KNOW Uncle Sam kept up with anything anywhere near Cuba. Will keep trying.

[Fishspearit]

I think a lot of that area was sounded by the British in the late 1800's and then went unsurveyed until relatively recent times with our electronics. Any British Admiralty charts if you can still find them pre-1960 would be interesting to look at. When I lived there I always heard the same thing, that Little Water key and Water key were seperate, as well as other passes between leeward and pine key. I know that I used to see some shocking changes in the sandbars inside of leeward cut after cold fronts passed through, and watched Northwest point lose about 15 feet of beach in a week.

[Canibul]

Hello Fish, interesting product. Did you develop that down here in the TCI? I think I can use one of those...for obvious reasons. 'Uh, yer honor, ya see, the hole in the fish is cause I hadda gaff him...."

I am most interested in the "Aquarium" between Water Cay and Pine Cay. It was obviously a good cut through before Donna. I am trying to find where the old channel would have been.

I have already found three old ballast piles out on the reef. Bunches of firebricks, and bottle bottoms circa 1750.

The shifting sandbars are really a trip. We zip between them, and watch the seasonal visitors run aground because they are still following the buoys that were good last season. I am on the water almost every day, and am getting a real good feel for local navigation. Charts are obsolete as soon as they get printed.

I have a friend here, now 83 years old, who has found an amazing amount of 'neat stuff' over the years. Including gold jewelry, and human bones.

[Talbot]

If you get hold of a recent UKHO chart of the area, that will list the dates of the surveys used in compiling the chart. You can then work out how old a chart you need.

[Fishspearit]

Surely someone has some old paper charts of the area. I had always heard that "back in the day" Leeward was a nice deep pass that boats could take from French cay to the north shore, but I don't know about the water/pine cay cut. Those cuts would've made great escape routes for the pirates working the southern edge of the banks, though, if they were truly usable.
Living in the T&C and the Bahamas were certainly a big part of the inspiration for the Foldspear. It never fails the big hogfish always swims up to you when you are only jumping in to check the anchor!

[Canibul]

I have been seeing really nice grouper lately, almost every time I am overboard in any water deeper than about 15-20 ft. Viz this morning was around 100 ft. plus.

I am really into looking up the old stuff here, specifically the names given. its amazing how appropriate the names are. Water Cay, for example. Fresh water is damned scarce around here. Pirates would have had to go there. No other options for fresh water close to the boat.

I dont know how long ago you were here, but Provo is changing big time. We spend most of our time on Pine Cay, but do spend a few days at a time in the "city" when we run low on provisions.

[Fishspearit]

It's been about 8 or 9 years since I was there, living on a mooring I put in Leeward off of the marina. I've been reading about a lot of the changes going on lately, pretty amazing, and in some ways it saddens me; but looking back the parts of the islands I remember fondest were all below the high tide line and that won't change as quickly.
I've got an old, old Caribbean chart on my wall here that I took a look at, and while it doesn't show any real detail on the water depths you might find the names of the islands interesting. They call your area "Ft. George and Isl. Pinos". East Caicos is called "Great Key or Cayco" and west caicos was called "Little Key".

[Canibul]

Does your chart have any name or info that would let me look it up online?

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Canibul,
I'm still looking through some of my old chart collection. Could you give me some numbers either old or new numbers will do? I'll keep a look out for them.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[Canibul]

Hello John,
Thanks for looking into it. I have modern charts for the area. The one I am looking at right now is "Providenciales, TC002, Edition 3.
Datum WGS 84, by Wavey Line Publishing, code WL T 12, corrected Feb. 2005."

If I could find something earlier than 1960 it would be good. I suspect WL publishing didnt exist then. In fact the TCI were administered by the Bahamas in those years. Jamaica before that. Bermuda before that. And an assortment of French, Spanish, and Englishmen before that. Plus the odd Dutchman, and I know thats redundant...

[Canibul]

For anyone in similar situations, i.e. for some reason wanting OLD charts, I have had responses from the University of Melbourne, and from the UKHO. they are looking into it.

Of course no response from Uncle Sam, who I pretty much suspect got aerial photos of every island within flying, swimming, and boating distance of Cuba back in the summer of 1960...

[Vasco]

canibul,

I have some old charts of Bahamas and T & C that I got in 1989. I remember some of the charts were old Admiralty ones from two centuries (1800's) ago. Unfortunately they're on the boat and I won't be down there for another couple of weeks or so. I'll have a look when I'm down there.

[Canibul]

Thanks Rick!
A digital photo of the Providenciales to North Caicos area would really be appreciated. I am most interested in what would have been the logical approaches and channels between Water Cay and Pine Cay, and around Ft. George Cay. They are all in a line, those three little cays.

If thats a hassle, then perhaps whatever info is on the charts so I could try to find them on the internet.