Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Foolisailor

What you are talking about is the reliance on gps based position fixing. Not electronic charts per day. As a practitioner of celestial techniques I know full well what you mean.

Again it's not the digital charts that are the issue it's the reliance on close accuracy gps fixes that's scary.

Dave

Yes, that is really the heart of it.

[daddle]

Someone asked what a stack of paper charts for a circumnavigation would look like. Could be a few or many. Depends how much navigation in random places is expected. My boat came with all the charts for a loop from North America thru the South Pacific and SE Asia. They were the B.S. photocopy charts from Bellingham. A stack about 15cm (6in) thick when swollen in the tropics. None current. I gave them away and use only electronic charts to do the same work. Carry a few small scale charts so in a calamity I can find a continent with a suitable tavern.

A couple of posters above said they rolled their charts. Does not insanity lie in that direction?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

How do you keep track of your position if all the land suddenly disappears?

I mean, if we're going to make suppositions, why not make all of them?

As in "At world's end"????

[Canibul]

If all the land suddenly disappears, what difference does it make where you are on the water? Floating debris isn't on any of the charts.

[carstenb]

A circumnavigator here in DK recently had an ad selling his paper charts "30 kilos of paper charts - 3000 Danish Kroner) - so an around the world paper trail generates 30 kilos.

Yes there are people of navigate exclusively with their chart plotters. What they don't realize is that the data in the chart plotters comes from the paper charts issued by the marine authorities. And the data (depth for instance) was generated up to a couple of hundred years ago by sailing in lines 100 meters apart and "casting the lead" So when the chart say you have 50 feet - you can't be sure. First if the number on the chart is exactly on the line where they cast the lead, that is the depth that was there 200 years ago - ever hear of "shifting sands"?

second - if the number is not on the line - then no one has ever measured the depth there. Could be a sandbar or rocks or or or.

I'm planning my summer sail right now - guess what? Plan from paper, use pilot book (paper) to check harbors etc. Discuss with crew what, if any, issues there are on the trip. Generate some waypoints if necessary.

Will I plot a route into my ray marine chart plotter? Probably not, since we will be doing mostly day sailing and the night stretches will be long - so we only need a bearing.

I love my chart plotter - but paper is good.

I think I've mentioned it before - but here in Denmark , it is mandatory that you have paper charts. Period.

[Lagoon4us]

Australia require you to carry paper charts regardless of electronics installed...

Do aircraft still carry a hard copy of mini charts? Im not sure.......

[carstenb]

Well that is Denmark and now Australia that require paper - I'm willing to bet most other countries also do.........

[Lagoon4us]

Paper charts are the spare tyre of navigation, always there stored safe and able to get you home....Cheers Frank

[Albro359]

Very pleased to see the latest replies....
ALWAYS carry paper charts...electronics are wonderful, but when they get full of water and the batteries are dead, and the engine won't start ......

And WHY would you throw away an alternate source of information ???

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Well that is Denmark and now Australia that require paper - I'm willing to bet most other countries also do.........

Mandatory safety equipment rules in Australia are a bit of a nightmare. There are different laws for each state which is particularly stupid.

One big problem is marine laws have an enormous lag behind technology.I was carring an EPIRB in Australia long before they were mandatory, but this proven life saving equipment was ignored by the legislation for many years.
Many people spent money buying different flares for different states. This money could have been much better spent on an EPIRB. There was even a requirement when I last bought safety equipment in Australia for a "v" sheet which I don't think anyone else in world has ever heard of or would understand the significance if I did display one.

In short, to use the legislation, at least in Australia, as an example of a well thought out list of equipment that should be carried is not valid IMHO.

Although I think even in Australia paper charts are only required in some states.

The UK has the best laws. They let the skipper decide what safety equipment should be carried. It's a novel idea to let an adult decide, rather than a politician, but I think the idea has merit.

[carstenb]

Just in case y'all didn't know - ya gotta have paper charts or you're not gonna be legal

[An] electronic chart display and information system (ECDIS) means a navigation information system which, with adequate back-up arrangements, can be accepted as complying with the up-to-date chart required by regulation V/20 of the 1974 SOLAS Convention, by displaying selected information from a system electronic navigational chart (SENC) with positional information from navigation sensors to assist the mariner in route planning and route monitoring, and by displaying additional navigation-related information if required."

Another class of navigational electronic chart systems exists, and is simply referred to as the electronic chart system (ECS). Such systems do not meet the SOLAS chart carriage requirements.

Hence, the use of ENCs in a tested, approved and certified ECDIS (with appropriate back-up arrangements) is the only alternative to paper charts for vessel navigation. Appropriate back-up systems may take the form of either paper charts or an independent, separate ECDIS.

soooooo like it or not - get your paper on board

[noelex 77]

The SOLAS requirements only apply to merchant ships.

[carstenb]

Actually - no. SOLAS applies to whatever group of ships or boats the local authorities say it does. Here in DK the Maritime Authorities say all boats. The same is probably true for many countries

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Actually - no. SOLAS applies to whatever group of ships or boats the local authorities say it does. Here in DK the Maritime Authorities say all boats. The same is probably true for many countries

Yes countries can impose whatever restriction they like.

Originally Posted by carstenb

Just in case y'all didn't know - ya gotta have paper charts or you're not gonna be legal

This statment is incorrect.
A British flagged private yacht for example does not need any saftey equipment at all to be legal.
When saling internationally most countries deem a yacht seaworthy it it meets the requirments of its home country even if these requirments are different from local boats.
There are some exceptions to the above general rule.

[rtbates]

A lightning strike might prove otherwise!