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22-07-2012, 16:07
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#406
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere in Germany
Boat: OEM, proportional
Posts: 1,437
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
very often see vessel assist pulling in sailboats who have run out of diesel(on a nice breezy day).
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And no shame at all? What's the thing sticking out of the deck for then....the mind boggles.
__________________
Ps 139:9-10 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
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22-07-2012, 16:21
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#407
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,591
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719
And no shame at all? What's the thing sticking out of the deck for then....the mind boggles.
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Putting the TV antenna on I guess
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
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22-07-2012, 16:35
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#408
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Backs ups of vital systems are essential on a long distance crusing boat.
I think many people are expressing the view that a chartplotter on its own is not enough. I agree, but does the backup map need to be paper?.
Electronics fail, so do liferafts, EPIRBS, radios rudders etc. a prudent sailor creates some redundancy in the vital systems, where possible. Other systems such as say the keel (for a monohull boat with a single keel) we accept that backups are not possible and there is some risk that a failure may be catastofic and probably fatal.
Electronics fail more often than keels so more redundancy is needed ( although the consequences of failure are less severe). So 2, 3 or more independedenty systems are needed, but this is easy and cheap.
We place our faith and lives in the hand of electronics most of the time we fly with only a couple of layers of redundancy. Some of these systems are absolutely vital, unlike simple mapping. Even a modern car has electonic systems that are essential for control and safety.
These electronic systems are more functional and safer than the mechanical systems they replaced. The same revolution is occurring in the mapping systems on pleasure yachts.
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22-07-2012, 16:42
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#409
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1
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A TV antenna goes under the thread "Your might be a live aboard if...", most of that lot wouldn't call vessel assist unless they sinking.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
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22-07-2012, 17:18
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#410
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cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee
Some people stay close enough to "civilization" and tech support, ... I have heard of people making a distress call when thier GPS or radar go down and very often see vessel assist pulling in sailboats who have run out of diesel(on a nice breezy day).
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Well, here's the thing: not everyone has 20 years' experience and can *safely* sail their boat into a dock for the fuel they really will need (see reference to safe docking above -- grin).
I really did hear a power boater call for coast guard guidance to the entrance of a channel (a very easily spotted channel) because his GPS went down, but the incident stands out becuaue it is NOT common. The CG, by the way, did not view the man's "problem" as something they deal with.
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22-07-2012, 17:56
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#411
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,959
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So...what do our ever careful paper chart proponents use as a backup in the event the paper charts are lost? (e.g. Fire, flood, piracy, blown overboard, plague of insects)
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22-07-2012, 18:02
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#412
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
They could anchor the boat near the marina and take the tender in to get fuel, a mechanic or at least a much shorter tow.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
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22-07-2012, 18:05
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#413
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
HAY!!!! I RESEMBLE THAT TV ANTENNA REMARK--- geeez--at least ye let me have a chance to remove it before ye commented ,,LOL....
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22-07-2012, 18:18
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#414
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Considering most live aboards know what they doing when it comes to boats...a TV antenna just confirms it.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
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22-07-2012, 18:23
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#415
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
rofl--my boat came with it--now i do not have one.. but, now my mizzen spreaders are gorgeous with new point...and the spreader hardware is now perfect!!. this musta come because ditched that obnoxious tv antenna....hhmmmmmmm
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27-07-2012, 15:11
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#416
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee
Some people stay close enough to "civilization" and tech support, ... I have heard of people making a distress call when thier GPS or radar go down and very often see vessel assist pulling in sailboats who have run out of diesel(on a nice breezy day).
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My favorite story like this is about the boat we heard call for Vessel Assist because their engine quit while entering the Marina del Rey channel. Vessel Assist asked the normal -how many people, life preservers, etc. All ok until they asked them to put down the anchor... there was some discussion, then they came back and said uh, we don't have an Anchor.
Now, I'm pretty understanding. People learn as they go except... 3 yrs later and they still go by with no anchor!! They belong to a local yacht club so I know they can afford it and they are not racers-so no excuse.
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27-07-2012, 15:19
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#417
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere in Germany
Boat: OEM, proportional
Posts: 1,437
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
It's facepalm time....
__________________
Ps 139:9-10 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
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27-07-2012, 15:51
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#418
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
My chart plotter also gives me predicted currents in interesting places like inlets that can be extremely useful.
My paper chart can't do that.
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Interesting. Wonder how it does that. I always thought that chartplotter data was the same data as paper charts anyway, nothing new. Maybe it does some funky interpolating. Doubt I'll ever be able to afford a luxury like a dedicated chart plotter , certainly the not the charts for cruising anyway. But the laptop does all that's needed and much more. Like spider solitaire for those offshore night watches Does any chart plotter have spider solitaire?
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27-07-2012, 17:43
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#419
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 5,607
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
Interesting. Wonder how it does that. I always thought that chartplotter data was the same data as paper charts anyway, nothing new. Maybe it does some funky interpolating. Doubt I'll ever be able to afford a luxury like a dedicated chart plotter , certainly the not the charts for cruising anyway. But the laptop does all that's needed and much more. Like spider solitaire for those offshore night watches Does any chart plotter have spider solitaire?
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Dunno, but your laptop will do currents, tides, moon, etc. with some of the widely available software. No internet required.
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27-07-2012, 18:15
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#420
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cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
Interesting. Wonder how it does that. I always thought that chartplotter data was the same data as paper charts anyway, nothing new. Maybe it does some funky interpolating. Doubt I'll ever be able to afford a luxury like a dedicated chart plotter , certainly the not the charts for cruising anyway. But the laptop does all that's needed and much more. Like spider solitaire for those offshore night watches Does any chart plotter have spider solitaire?
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How does it do it? It's known information that can be gathered, but it's very convenient information to have right with depth sounder and a digitized view of the channel ...
It doesn't READ the currents ... just as a tide chart didn't predict the 2' overages we had during TS Debby. It's a chart plotter. It's not your brain. You still have to think.
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