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Old 08-10-2012, 17:45   #736
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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I am going to guess that he didn't "throw a rod." Throwing a rod is when the rod cap comes undone from the crankshaft journal. This is extremely rare. It can happen by the nuts backing off (almost impossible if torqued properly at assembly) or rare cases when the bearing fails over time due to lack of lubrication - symptom is a loud knocking sound for quite a while before parts fail.

I guess from the lack of vented loop he had a hydraulic lock and bent a connecting rod. Different failure mode. Neither one however comes from idling too long or running at 80% of WOT for extended periods.
Just to be clear, the mechanic said that the extended idling ADDED to the problem -- not caused it. I realize I was not clear about that. And ... he did have signs of trouble before it siezed up and refused to ever turn again. He did hear knocking. I gave him the name of my engine mechanic and even told him "$75 could save you from a lot of trouble ..."

My friend is not being very realistic about it. He thinks that when they sold him th engine they should have specifically told him to add the vented loop. The dealership's position is that he bought the engine and presented himself as knowledgeable enough to install it properly.

He's probably going to have a tractor engine retrofitted in.
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Old 08-10-2012, 21:10   #737
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Idling a diesel engine for long periods, or not working them, Glazes up the bores,
Water in any engine will bend the rods, Kaput instantly,
Water does not compress, so the energy has to go some where, Bent rods, broken crankshaft, lift the head off the motor, Etc Etc,
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Old 08-10-2012, 21:23   #738
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Idling a diesel engine for long periods, or not working them, Glazes up the bores,
Water in any engine will bend the rods, Kaput instantly,
Water does not compress, so the energy has to go some where, Bent rods, broken crankshaft, lift the head off the motor, Etc Etc,

I know the mechanic made quite a point of pointing out where it was on my engine system.
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Old 08-10-2012, 22:31   #739
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Talk about a thread derailment.

It makes me vicariously embarassed just looking back and finding how this originated.
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Old 08-10-2012, 23:02   #740
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Talk about a thread derailment.

It makes me vicariously embarassed just looking back and finding how this originated.
Ladies jousting
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Old 08-10-2012, 23:26   #741
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Bahaaaaaa!!!!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:36   #742
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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the big picture is in the paper charts.
not all of us have back up everything --omg we are derelicts!!! and living within our incomes, meager as they are.
when you cruise long distances and into other countries, stuff happens. if you dont have backup for the electronic items, then you are not intelligent. you can have all the electronic bs you want--but the paper BIG PICTURE wont be replaced by an elecronic gizmo--where do you think the info for the chartplotter and gps comes from????? is always good to be ready for any kind of emergency--stuff happens.
perhaps if and when you cruise to other places than floriduh, you may see a use for paper charts.....catastrophic electrical issues on board, gps satellite failure(can happen!! is government) and other problems....

PMSL sorry but exeactly where do you think the paper charts come from? You don't actually believe the Navy, Hydrographic Survey and similar responsible for creating charts actually draws them by hand do you? They start out electronic and get printed.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:58   #743
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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PMSL sorry but exeactly where do you think the paper charts come from? You don't actually believe the Navy, Hydrographic Survey and similar responsible for creating charts actually draws them by hand do you? They start out electronic and get printed.
yup.they come from electronic sources, just as they did in 1865....
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:35   #744
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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yup.they come from electronic sources, just as they did in 1865....

Sure ... nothin' ever changes. They were drawn by hand in 1500 and by God they are today!
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:40   #745
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

rodlmao...
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:40   #746
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Class one Hydrographic measurements are done by specialized computer software packages and are then printed on paper charts, Using GPS for positioning of the vessel doing the soundings,

I can imagine doing soundings these days using a lead line in a thousand feet or more of water,
We have 10 thousand feet of water depth here, and in sight of land,

Many countries are currently doing updated hydrographic surveys, And Australia is one of them,

They have a huge ship doing all the seas around Australia at the moment, and its all done electronically,

They are also doing geograghical surveys across Australia by plane, towing two drones that measures 500 metres below ground level,
Thats an electronical survey as well,

Then they print it out on paper sheets, or charts, But it is all accessible by computer,

Captain cook did a marvellous job 200 years ago, But the ocean floor has shifted some what since then, His were all on paper charts drawn by hand.

Some of his maps are still used to this day, Their Caligraphy was excellent also,
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Old 09-10-2012, 15:13   #747
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Actually there are six vessels all up assigned to survey work (although some may be deployed elsewhere) and one main aircraft.

They have been involved particulalry in the north west of Australia doing all sorts of interesting work...
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Old 09-10-2012, 20:29   #748
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Who gives a bugger about how they are created?! The question is to their validity on a voyaging boat. A prudent mariner will not rely solely on electronics. To do so is to invite peril which will usually strike at the point where the greatest potential loss becomes apparent.

Without GPS, those without paper charts are in serious strife. However, with a paper backup, and the knowledge required to safely navigate a boat, there is no cause for trepidation.

Indeed, even those who manufacture GPS, still issue a disclaimer which calls them an aid to navigation only, and say that the GPS should not be the sole form of navigational reliance.

I have a chartplotter and a handheld GPS, but I cannot imagine weighing anchor without first having the appropriate paper charts covering my intended route. Incidentally, despite my electronic depth sounders, I still have a leadline as a backup.
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Old 09-10-2012, 20:34   #749
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Who gives a bugger about how they are created?! The question is to their validity on a voyaging boat. A prudent mariner will not rely solely on electronics. To do so is to invite peril which will usually strike at the point where the greatest potential loss becomes apparent.

Without GPS, those without paper charts are in serious strife. However, with a paper backup, and the knowledge required to safely navigate a boat, there is no cause for trepidation.

Indeed, even those who manufacture GPS, still issue a disclaimer which calls them an aid to navigation only, and say that the GPS should not be the sole form of navigational reliance.

I have a chartplotter and a handheld GPS, but I cannot imagine weighing anchor without first having the appropriate paper charts covering my intended route.

+1

Absolutely right.

But let's face it -- the disclaimer is a CYA thing.
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Old 09-10-2012, 21:35   #750
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I do carry paper charts but I also find it interesting the for hundreds of years mariners have ran aground, long before gps, long before "electronics" came in to play, yet we collectively seem to have drawn a line in the sand that paper charts are the bee all and end all of navigation, only since plotters and gps have people thrown caution to the wind and perhaps sailed without the correct charts for the region they were travelling in (someone better go tell all those explorers how foolhardy and irresponsible they were/are)

I beleive both have their place, whilstI also suspect there is a lot of emotional arguments thrust forward rather than fact or reality.

Whatever gets you out there!
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