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Old 02-09-2012, 19:31   #676
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

This is really a debate on back up. If the electronics fail then what? If you have charts and no sextant and tables then your charts are of limited use. If you are on the coast line when your electronics go down a slightly different issue as you have a handheld compass etc to get positions.

We are off to New Caledonia next year and we have a gps and hand as back up. We are going to buy some paper charts to cover Noumea so are entry is covered if we have no electrics. We will take the sextant and an almanac so we can do a noon sight if needed to get lat We are also going to purchase an electronic chart for the rest of New Calidonia. We think that is a balanced approach to this issue. Its been 10 years since i last used a sextant to make land fall(Brisbane to Nelson New Zealand) and i am out of practice but right up to date on reading my Gps position and getting back to my cup of tea or whatever and relaxing. I dont think paper charts are redundant but i dont think you need as many. I also think that soon you wont be able to purchase up to date paper charts but i maybe wrong. Every thing i say is purely subjective.
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Old 02-09-2012, 21:06   #677
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Im still useing a Accutron watch that ive had for a LONG time ! still keeps less then 2 seconds a month. with my old brass Plath sextant, and a chart or two I can get most anywhere I want to go !! a current almanac, and a set of tables and your good to go !! just sayin if ya are gonna cross oceans, it sure don't hurt to have more then one system to use for navagation ! No big thing ! I also have a hand held GPS and Connie has her Capt system, so we do have electronics! but I still take a noon site if I can ! and once in a while I even take a star or Planet site just for fun !! But paper charts are used every day !!!
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Old 02-09-2012, 21:51   #678
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
I am sure car drivers do not discuss the pros and cons so much between a street directory and a GPS. But maybe they do? Ha ha, aren't we humans a crazy mob?



recently I tried to use the GPS in my pone to get to a golf course. No where near close.
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Old 03-09-2012, 00:11   #679
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I am approaching 5000NM on my journey so far and have never looked at a paper chart so far. I do have some large wide scale charts, simple thing is for going long distances paper charts are too expensive and consume too much space. i keep a back up gps permanently in a farady cage (lightening protection), should the satellites stop working- i think it would be a end of the world as we know it scenario and i would be in no rush to make landfall !
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:39   #680
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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what kind of chronometer do you keep on board to use with your sextant mate? last time i looked the best timepiece on my boat was...the gps.
Yes, Charlie, we always have a laugh when we pull the sextant out for a practice because ............ yes, we use the handheld GPS for the time!!

We also have a quartz watch somewhere.
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:50   #681
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Yes, Charlie, we always have a laugh when we pull the sextant out for a practice because ............ yes, we use the handheld GPS for the time!!

We also have a quartz watch somewhere.
Whenever I pull the sextant out I also realise the GPS has an error. Sometimes the GPS is several miles out from my carefully calculated sextant position
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:39   #682
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

This debate needs to be restarted. Please see quote below from SOLAS:

Hydrographic data and charts

All ships are required to carry "adequate and up-to-date charts" under SOLAS Chapter V (Regulation 20) to assist in navigation.

At present, the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) does not specify Governmental responsibility for producing charts, but in 1983, IMO adopted a Resolution referring to the importance of the provision of accurate and up-to-date hydrographic information to safety of navigation and to the fact that many areas had not been surveyed to modern standards.

The Resolution invited Governments to conduct hydrographic surveys and co-operate with other Governments where necessary. This was followed in 1985 by a Resolution urging IMO Member Governments to establish regional hydrographic commissions or charting groups and to support groups already set up by the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO) to prepare accurate charts.

The Resolution was adopted after representation from the IHO, which had informed IMO of the inadequacy of nautical charts of many sea areas as a result of dependence on old hydrographic surveys and noted that, in order to develop up to date charts for these areas, substantial technical co-operation would be required between developed and developing coastal states on a regional basis.


Please note that int he first line it says "All Ships". It does not say All commercial ships, or ship over a certain size - it says "all Ships".




sooooooo - unless you have the EDCIS system - you are required to carry carry "adequate and up to date charts"
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:41   #683
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Before y'all ask, here's the link

IMO | Electronic charts
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:52   #684
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

SOLAS regulations are only generally applicable to merchant ships.

They introduce some regulations that are only applicable to some classes of ships, such as vessels over a certain size.
When they say "all ships" I would interpret this to mean "all ships that the SOLAS regulations apply too". That does not include private pleasure yachts.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:10   #685
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
......

All ships are required to carry "adequate and up-to-date charts" under SOLAS Chapter V (Regulation 20) to assist in navigation.
..............

sooooooo - unless you have the EDCIS system - you are required to carry carry "adequate and up to date charts"
Not me.

And it's reg 27, not 20.

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/index.html

Quote:
1. Reg. 27 applies to all ships except for UK-flagged pleasure vessels of less than 150 gt.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:39   #686
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

The source of my quote is the International Maritime Organization. I believe it cover UK-flagged vessels also (I may be wrong on this though). I copied directly from theirs - so at the IMO - it is regulation 20
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:42   #687
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

My apologies Conachair. I checked your link and it does indeed specify that Reg 27 does not apply to uk-falgged pleasure craft under 150 gt.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:58   #688
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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My apologies Conachair. I checked your link and it does indeed specify that Reg 27 does not apply to uk-falgged pleasure craft under 150 gt.
Almost no small boat regulation in the UK.


Much as I like opencpn there will still be a bit of paper onboard anyway.

Shame mini printers are so expensive.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:10   #689
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Noelex77 - I have checked this with the Danish National Maritime Board. According to them, unless the National Board issues an exemption (as in the case of the UK - see above), then under SOLAS, "All Ships" means All Ships. No exceptions, unless otherwise stated.

The issue then, for the purposes of this discussion, is which states have exempted what?

Denmark does not exempt anyone. The UK does. What does the US do? SOLAS specifically states that these regulations do not apply to ships on the Great Lakes or their tributaries.

Can anyone document that US-Flagged boats are exempt (with the exception of the above named).

Any other nationalities that want to chime in are welcome
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:24   #690
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Noelex77 - I have checked this with the Danish National Maritime Board. According to them, unless the National Board issues an exemption (as in the case of the UK - see above), then under SOLAS, "All Ships" means All Ships. No exceptions, unless otherwise stated.
And even then the excemptions are valid only in territorial waters..
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