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Old 24-08-2012, 20:54   #616
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

"O" and for some of ya Coast Pilot Books are available on line at least the Wifes Capt Program has them contained in it for downloading if ya wish !! I don't use her system much altho I do ck it against my GPS hand held and paper Charts. But I have downloaded and printed out a couple of them I did not have !! just a thought
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Old 24-08-2012, 22:38   #617
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

By the way, I did just find all 6 volumes of the Sight Reduction Tables in PDF Format on a US Gov. .mil server portal for free download

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Old 24-08-2012, 22:48   #618
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

Oh, and also calculator scripts, as well. You can have all the necessary calculators installed on a laptop if you want, also free.

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Old 25-08-2012, 01:18   #619
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
The drill rig.....



The boat....

Good luck with the tow, cannot see the pictures for some reason, must be to do with the Fleet 77 broadband connection.
Is it a dry tow, I really dont like towing jack ups.
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Old 25-08-2012, 02:31   #620
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

idiots .....apple shareholders...duped by anything that has "i" infront of it..you buy it because you think you should, not because it's necessary...
what if it all falls over?
If the US / Israel goes to war against Iran or someone else that gets up their collective nose and the GPS goes off...where will you be then ??
Paper charts, a hand bearing compass, a sextant, an almanac and tables....no problem..oh and by the way, the Mark 1 eyeball, the best navigational tool ever !!
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Old 25-08-2012, 02:57   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359
idiots .....apple shareholders...duped by anything that has "i" infront of it..you buy it because you think you should, not because it's necessary...
what if it all falls over?
If the US / Israel goes to war against Iran or someone else that gets up their collective nose and the GPS goes off...where will you be then ??
Paper charts, a hand bearing compass, a sextant, an almanac and tables....no problem..oh and by the way, the Mark 1 eyeball, the best navigational tool ever !!
Fear Mongering, that's all this post is. , pure stirring

I can and do use all the things you mention. But I also recognise that GPS ( and all the other GNSS) , and the associated electronic navigation aids are here to stay. The mere fact I use a calculator doesn't mean I don't keep a good watch.

I presume you don't fly, drive a car, take an elevator etc.

Wars don't shut off GPS ( anyway we can use the Russian system, and soon the Chineese , and soon Gallaleo , etc) the military needs GPS more in a conflict then we do. Arguing against something because of an irrational fear is the most ridiculous of arguments.

What nonsense sir, Luddites come forth etc.

Dave
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Old 25-08-2012, 03:23   #622
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1021215]Fear Mongering, that's all this post is. , pure stirring

I can and do use all the things you mention. But I also recognise that GPS ( and all the other GNSS) , and the associated electronic navigation aids are here to stay. The mere fact I use a calculator doesn't mean I don't keep a good watch.

I presume you don't fly, drive a car, take an elevator etc.

Wars don't shut off GPS ( anyway we can use the Russian system, and soon the Chineese , and soon Gallaleo , etc) the military needs GPS more in a conflict then we do. Arguing against something because of an irrational fear is the most ridiculous of arguments.


thanks Dave for your eruditon...

Luddite I am not
I have 3 GPS systems on my boat..I use MaxSea TimeZero and C-Map charts on a cockpit chartplotter
BUT I am always conscious of "what if"

Wars don't shut off GPS?..really ? in the 1st "gulf War" the US introduced errors into the GPS positioning. Clinton later passed some legislation that was to prevent that happening again...but hey all's fair in love and war and i don't trust any of those buggers.
Where does one buy a navigator that uses the Russian system ?
Is Galileo up and running ?

What if your batteries are flat, your engine won't start, your wind generator and solar panels are destroyed in a gale / knockdown ? how does your i thingy work then...let alone your GPS and nav electronics.

This is not the same as "not driving a car"..and no I generally don't use lifts (elevators) unless the floor I need to go to is more than about 4 or 5 ...but then in our part of the world we are not so advanced that we have that many multi-multi story buildings

Its about "what if"

Anyone going to sea without paper charts and backups to electronic nav systems is nuts.

Irrational fear...I don't think so...precuationary I believe

Cheers
Alan
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Old 25-08-2012, 03:34   #623
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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Wars don't shut off GPS?..really ? in the 1st "gulf War" the US introduced errors into the GPS positioning. Clinton later passed some legislation that was to prevent that happening again...but hey all's fair in love and war and i don't trust any of those buggers.
It was the other way around when GPS was introduced it had some diliberate errors called selective ability.
Military GPS had a special code that removed this error.
During the war they ran out of military GPS units. The military started using civilian GPS models. So they turned off selective ability. Suddenly everyone had a much more accurate GPS.

However, even if the GPS system is shut down ectronic charts continue function. The US president may be able to turn off the GPS system, but he cannot turn off my chartplotter.
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Old 25-08-2012, 03:45   #624
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

The US military always had the option of selective availability.
They applied it during the 1st Gulf War.
After that, when old man Bush was chucked out and Hill and Billiary were voted in, the administration passed legislation that stopped the "selective availability" action.

Thats the fact

GPS was accurate before the Gulf war, it only became inaccurate during the "war" when selective availability was turned on.
The accuracy was restored when selective availability was turned off.

See : President Turns Off GPS Selective Availability
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Old 25-08-2012, 04:29   #625
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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oh and by the way, the Mark 1 eyeball, the best navigational tool ever !!
Good all rounder but pretty limited really! Very handy to have onboard, i wouldn't leave port without mine . But limited, can't see in fog, or round corners, not very good in the dark and consistently sees what it expects to see. I certainly don't trust my Mk1 eyeball completely.
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:10   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359
The US military always had the option of selective availability.
They applied it during the 1st Gulf War.
After that, when old man Bush was chucked out and Hill and Billiary were voted in, the administration passed legislation that stopped the "selective availability" action.

Thats the fact

GPS was accurate before the Gulf war, it only became inaccurate during the "war" when selective availability was turned on.
The accuracy was restored when selective availability was turned off.

See : President Turns Off GPS Selective Availability
Wrong.

Selective availability was enabled when GPS was opened to civilian use by President Reagan in the 1980's. It was temporarily deactivated during the Gulf War to enable the military to use civilian devices. Then it was reactivated after the war until President Clinton issued an order in 1997 that it be deactivated; deactivation occurred in 2000. This was not by legislation.

Selective ability is unlikely to ever be reimplemented. The military has better, more selective, methods for limiting the enemy's use, if needed.
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Old 25-08-2012, 16:15   #627
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

I would like to point out that even with SA going full tilt, GPS was FAR more accurate than Celestial as practiced from the platform of a small yacht at sea.

Cheers,

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Old 25-08-2012, 16:18   #628
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I would like to point out that even with SA going full tilt, GPS was FAR more accurate than Celestial as practiced from the platform of a small yacht at sea.

Cheers,

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And, far more accurate than Loran A or C.
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Old 25-08-2012, 17:57   #629
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Re: Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

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And, far more accurate than Loran A or C.
Which in turn was far more accurate than VLF / Omega LRN (but had far less coverage).
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Old 25-08-2012, 18:34   #630
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All we all say. Arguing against gps usage ( which has nothing to do with electronics charts) because of some irrational
Fear that they might not be available is pure nonsense, and shows a lack of understanding of how gps ( and all GNSS s) are constructed and used.

Dave
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